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Thread: Sterling Euph Options Question

  1. #1

    Sterling Euph Options Question

    I'm curious about some Sterling options.

    !) the UK factory site says the euph has a 300 mm bell. But custom in the US sells 12" bells. Is the 300 mm a special order in the US? Are smaller bell sizes available?

    2) Is lacquer on the virtuoso an option?

    3) If I wanted a Virtuoso set up more or less like a Besson Sovereign (bracing, etc.), with heavy yellow brass 300 mm bell, lacquer and a trigger, would that be possible?

    Thanks,

    John

  2. #2

    Sterling Euph Options Question

    John,

    Here's my understanding of the situation. I'll see if I can get corrections or clarifications from Custom or Sterling if necessary.

    First, Paul says that the 300/310 measurements are targets, but can vary depending on the technician finishing it off. My horn is the 300mm version. I'll try to measure it tomorrow, but I think it is less than the 11.8" that 300mm would convert to. He also made one at 305 for a customer at least once. Not sure about smaller. I think Custom has focused on the 310 because it is more popular, but I know they carry 300's at least to some extent.

    Last I knew, lacquer is available. Paul is sending the horns out for plating, so I don't see why he could not do the same for lacquer if he doesn't do it inhouse.

    Excepting for the lacquer, which I can check into, the #3 should be very doable.

    If I learn more I'll share here!

    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  3. Sterling Euph Options Question

    Originally posted by: JTJ

    I'm curious about some Sterling options.

    !) the UK factory site says the euph has a 300 mm bell. But custom in the US sells 12" bells. Is the 300 mm a special order in the US? Are smaller bell sizes available?

    2) Is lacquer on the virtuoso an option?

    3) If I wanted a Virtuoso set up more or less like a Besson Sovereign (bracing, etc.), with heavy yellow brass 300 mm bell, lacquer and a trigger, would that be possible?
    John...I am forwarding your questions to Paul Riggett for a definitive answer.

    1) From my experience, the 300mm (11.8") is pretty much standard. It is a good compromise between focused sound, responsivness, and warmth. Bell sizes of 12" (305mm) or 310mm (12.2") are also made by Sterling. Don't know about sizes smaller than 300mm, but it is certainly possible.

    2). Don't know about lacquer. They are set up to do silver or silver with gold trim, but the horns are buffed to a faretheewell PRIOR to being plated. They certainly could be lacquered if Paul has acess to the facilities to do so. This is a great question for him.

    3). With the exception of the plating vs. lacquer, the horn you describe is identical to my horn. I specifically asked for and got bracing locations similar to the Besson Prestige (not the full floating leadpipe of the Sovereign but leadpipe with a center brace). Note that the physical layout of the horn, particularly location of the leadpipe and handrest MAY not be identical to a Besson, so if you want changes there, you would have to ask for them.

    Doug
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

  4. Sterling Euph Options Question

    What you see above with both Dave and I replying to John with essentially the same information is what is known as a race condition! Doug
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

  5. #5

    Sterling Euph Options Question

    Thanks, Dave and Doug, for the info. For me the 300 mm bell is the most important option; over the years I've determined that I just do not like the sound spread in the larger bell, at least in the 5 instruments I've tried with a 12" or larger bell: Willson 2950, Miraphone 5050, the Virtuoso, Prestige 2052 and the Sovereign 967. For wind band work, 300 seems optimal. I love the 968 I play in small groups, but it just can't quite reach the sound levels needed at times in band.

    I like a somewhat brighter sound, hence the yellow brass bell. Lacquer is far less important, but it would be nice to have a less bling-ful euph. And I guess I am in the might-as-well school when it comes to triggers these days, although I do not believe one can always blow down the center of a note, even with a trigger, although it can help tame the wilder partials.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    460

    Sterling Euph Options Question

    Dave brings up an interesting point regarding horn measurments. So, when you say "target" in regards to bell measurments, does the same apply to bore size. I noticed on some of the horns---like Miraphone, there is a range on the bore size.

    Is it the same thing, target range? Or is that something specific to the Sterling brand??

    Euphs:
    Miraphone 5050 Ambassador
    Wessex Travel (Tornister) Euphonium 'Maly' ER154
    Yamaha 201 Baritone
    Mp: Wick SM4 Ultra X
    Groups:
    The San Diego Concert Band

  7. Sterling Euph Options Question

    The variations in bore size occur because the bore of the 4th valve section is often larger than that of the 1-3 valves. On my Sterling, this is quite apparent as you look at the piston ports on the valves. Those that are part of the 4th valve loop and compensating system are larger in diamater. The variations in bell size might occur in manufacture. A target of 300mm might come out just a bit larger or smaller.

    Doug
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

  8. #8

    Sterling Euph Options Question

    Some horns DO vary the bore size from valve to valve, but that is usually limited to rotary valve instruments. The standard specification for bore size is to measure the inside diameter at the 2nd valve. Almost any current 3+1 euphonium has a larger bore size at the 4th valve (on purpose).

    The bore is very, very accurate. This is because it is determined by tubing that makes up all the internal passages of the valves, the holes drilled in the outer cylinder of the valves, and the tubing coming into the valves. They have to match precisely.

    But when you are turning a bell you are usually stretching the tube at the end, plus you have to finish if off and create the edge roll. There can be more variation in the process, but small differences aren't consequential.

    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    460

    Sterling Euph Options Question

    Thanks for clearing that up for me.

    Euphs:
    Miraphone 5050 Ambassador
    Wessex Travel (Tornister) Euphonium 'Maly' ER154
    Yamaha 201 Baritone
    Mp: Wick SM4 Ultra X
    Groups:
    The San Diego Concert Band

  10. Sterling Euph Options Question

    Originally posted by: daruby
    John...I am forwarding your questions to Paul Riggett for a definitive answer.

    1) From my experience, the 300mm (11.8") is pretty much standard. It is a good compromise between focused sound, responsivness, and warmth. Bell sizes of 12" (305mm) or 310mm (12.2") are also made by Sterling. Don't know about sizes smaller than 300mm, but it is certainly possible.

    2). Don't know about lacquer. They are set up to do silver or silver with gold trim, but the horns are buffed to a faretheewell PRIOR to being plated. They certainly could be lacquered if Paul has acess to the facilities to do so. This is a great question for him.

    3). With the exception of the plating vs. lacquer, the horn you describe is identical to my horn. I specifically asked for and got bracing locations similar to the Besson Prestige (not the full floating leadpipe of the Sovereign but leadpipe with a center brace). Note that the physical layout of the horn, particularly location of the leadpipe and handrest MAY not be identical to a Besson, so if you want changes there, you would have to ask for them.

    Doug
    Answers from Paul Riggett to Dave and myself follow:

    Hi to both of you - The standard model on my website lists the heavy red 300 mm, but this was before I started adding more options to choose. I need to change the website. So, the standard model is 12"standard gauge yellow brass bell, no trigger, no gold, silver plated.

    Options are:
    - Bell - 12"standard gauge red brass, heavy gauge yellow, red brass copper
    - 300mm/12"/310mm, rimless, any flowery design, painted with naked ladies
    - MTS trigger
    - gold plated fittings or fittings+ slides
    - lacquer finish
    - bracing, protection caps, guard wires as requested
    - any other modifications would need a visit to the workshop

    Paul Riggett


    By the way, if you get naked ladies (like the old Conn horns) painted on the bell I think you may want to qualify that horn as a "John Jones" custom special.
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

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