Yamaha 642 Neo

[TheJH]

I never liked the 51L which ships with the 642 Neo, too narrow and shallow for me. I use an Alliance E2, which has the cup depth roughly of the SM3 or 3AL. When the horn is warmed up, I usually pull about 1/2 inch for best intonation.

Thinking about it, it surprises me that they deliver it with a 51L, instead of a 51DL, which is specifically made for euphonium according to their chart.

[daruby]

Agreed! Looking on the Besson side, we have Steven Mead playing a Prestige and Misa Mead playing a Sovereign. I'm sure Misa could have a Prestige any time she wanted, and is certainly playing on the professional stage, so I assume she simply likes the concept of the Sovereign better. Let's also keep in mind that the Sovereign was the ultimate-top-of-the-line Besson before the Prestige was introduced, and served almost all of the top British players. It'd be hard not to call it a pro horn. I also classify the 642 among the pro horns.

Dave I am in full agreement. I am not completely certain why Misa Mead plays a 967T (Sovereign with a trigger), but note that the leadpipe of the Sovereign makes it more suitable for a smaller player (it curves around the bell more). Also, Besson modified the wrap of the 3rd valve slide on ALL of their euphs in 2011 to reduce the grip width for the left hand. The distance between the 3rd valve slide and outer branch on Besson euphs is now similar to the Yamaha 642. The Yamaha 842 has an even smaller grip and lower leadpipe more suitable for smaller players. All four of these horns are "pro level" and with availability of triggers on all, the differences are matters of preference and cosmetics.

Doug

[superted]

Yes they are both pro horns.

642 Maestro was mass production pro model.

842 was introduced as a custom/limited production model - it was hands down better than the 642 at the time.

Then they revamped the Maestro for the brass band market - Neo 642ii. It was so good that the Custom no longer had a clear advantage over the Neo and became a matter of preference.

At least that's how I remembered it.

[Eingram24]

Yamaha provides a 51L with the Neo and they way I understand Japanese engineering - that's the mouthpiece the instrument was designed to operate under. So then you replace that mouthpiece with a bucket (say SM3 classic) and you quickly see why there would be a problem with the tuning slide being too long.

You look at the market of middle class high school student vs hobbyist / professionals then you would understand why they have set the instrument up that way.

When I was watching that video, I was wondering if anyone would think the 842 sounded better? It sounds so thin compares to the 642. But Matonizz prefers the 842 sound, and I know that there is plenty to like about the 842 sound I just don't think the recording captured the true quality of the 842...

I feel like I can answer this one fairly well. I played a Maestro for my first 2 years of HS, a Neo(no trigger) for the last 2 years of HS, and just picked up a Custom for College. The Neo and Custom both blow the Maestro out of the water in every way possible- intonation, clarity, etc. The difference between the Neo and Custom is mostly player preference in my opinion. To me, the Neo is definitely darker but can feel really stuffy at times, especially when multi tonguing. Custom is a lot clearer to me and I can blow through more multi tonguing passages with ease. Custom is also a lot heavier in my opinion, even considering the trigger system. The silver just feels like it’s a better quality plating. I have to also agree with someone earlier in this thread that praised the Neo’s extreme high register- it is much easier to play up there with Neo. On the flip side, I find Custom’s compensating range to have a lot better response. Custom also has the water catcher which really helps- water got everywhere with Neo when I played it. As a fairly tall person(6’3) I have to give ergonomics to the Neo. Custom is a bit annoying to hold with the leadpipe placement for sure- getting some foam pads for my leg to rest it on fixed this. Overall, I like Custom a bit more but it’s very, very close- try both before buying one

[ChristianeSparkle]

I am sorry for derailing the thread into the whole discussion about what constitutes an "Intermediate" horn and a "professional" horn. Just brought it out because it was a discussion I had just some time ago and I was rather confused/fascinating to hear someone say that many of the horns are considered "intermediate" to that person. Aside from price, he said he can perceive a significant difference in workmanship and the sound that comes out of the horns to classify them as such (e.g. between Neo and Customs/Adams/Geneva OldRoy/Miraphone. Anyway, apologies!


Returning to the topic at hand, I've noticed people have been bringing up the leadpip placement on the Customs, is it possible (or even easy), for any technicians to re-adjust the leadpipe if, say, we bring it to a workshop?

[Snorlax]

This whole business about what horns are "professional" is a digression.
Over my entire career as a performer, I have made 85% of my euph-playing
income playing a Yamaha 321. (Avatar pic was taken at an outdoor quintet gig. I play the horn parts and do most of the arrangements)
Nobody outside the "euphonium bubble" or "academic bubble" knows or cares what horn someone plays.
They just want to hear the tune.
I've been playing for pay for almost 40 years. NOT ONE person in a regular audience
(outside the "euphonium bubble" or "academic bubble") has asked me what type of horn I played.
Most people had no idea what a euphonium is, let alone cared that I wasn't playing a Willson.

Having said that, I never once even contemplated leaving my very nice day job! ;-) ;-)

[tbonesullivan]

I am sorry for derailing the thread into the whole discussion about what constitutes an "Intermediate" horn and a "professional" horn. Just brought it out because it was a discussion I had just some time ago and I was rather confused/fascinating to hear someone say that many of the horns are considered "intermediate" to that person. Aside from price, he said he can perceive a significant difference in workmanship and the sound that comes out of the horns to classify them as such (e.g. between Neo and Customs/Adams/Geneva OldRoy/Miraphone. Anyway, apologies!


Returning to the topic at hand, I've noticed people have been bringing up the leadpipe placement on the Customs, is it possible (or even easy), for any technicians to re-adjust the leadpipe if, say, we bring it to a workshop?

It all depends on location. In some areas, where they are BIG on band instruments and big on spending on them, they consider anything not top of the line to be "intermediate". So trombone players with "just" a Bach 42BO? nope you gotta have an Edwards or Shires or Rath. In high school. So when they see that there is a Euphonium that is appreciably more expensive, well that means it's gotta be better, and that the other one must be "intermediate".

These are people unfamiliar with things such as the law of diminishing returns, and also Custom/Artisan vs professional. As many say, "you make it professional".

Regarding the leadpipe, I guess it would depend on how it is attached. Most of the horns I see now have "floating" leadpipes, while my Sterling has a leadpipe that is soldered the whole length to the bell almost. Floating would definitely be easier to move, BUT would definitely entail bending the pipe a bit. Also there's that whole thing with silver plating and solder work, which can be annoying.

[Snorlax]

Superted,
Please see the discussion here about the tuning slide...just as it is a compromise designed to fit a generic player, so is the mouthpiece a compromise to fit a generic player. I didn't like the 51L when I bought my Neo so I swapped the dealer for a Wick 4. Now I use the Wick 4 equivalent of the Wedge and like it a lot.
I wouldn't necessarily call the SM3 a bucket--many players use 3s or equivalent from orher manufacturers. I used a 3 and a 3.5 for quite a while with my Miraphone 5050.

[Snorlax]

Does anyone know if the Neo has undergone any developments/refinements since its issue? If so, what were they?
ALSO: I can't find any info on Yamaha serial numbers--do they still have that goofy policy of not releasing serial number info?

[jkircoff]

Does anyone know if the Neo has undergone any developments/refinements since its issue? If so, what were they?
ALSO: I can't find any info on Yamaha serial numbers--do they still have that goofy policy of not releasing serial number info?

I feel your pain on the Sterling side of things. I've been trying to date my Sterling Virtuoso euphonium for years to no avail. Paul Riggett has told me a couple times he'd look it up but he's never followed through.

[ChristianeSparkle]

I just found out Steven Walsh is no longer a Yamaha Artist and he just put up his Neo for sale on Facebook. I wonder what he's switching to?

[davewerden]

I just found out Steven Walsh is no longer a Yamaha Artist and he just put up his Neo for sale on Facebook. I wonder what he's switching to?

I'm trying to find out. It's possible he is just getting a newer model with a trigger, for example, but I'll update here if I learn more.

[ChristianeSparkle]

I've had the pleasure to play a Yamaha 642 Neo (without trigger) for a few hours lately & even tested it out in band rehearsals.I was blown away by how the horn handles. Compared to my own horn, the Besson Sovereign & Sterling Virtuoso with red brass bell (both of which I got to play for half an hour earlier in the year), it felt like it took less effort to make it do what I wanted to do. The Besson Sovereign and Sterling Virtuoso definitely sounded and handled better than my JP, but it felt like I still needed considerable effort to slot and shape the notes. The Neo felt like it handled differently from them all.

Ergonomics-wise, it felt rather comfortable for me, but, having a long body meant I still had to hold it up a lot, I definitely need a pillow for it. However, I wasn't aching as much as I used to with my own horn. I noticed the slides are slightly nearer to the horn's body too, which felt comfortable to hold for me. Overall, I's say I like the ergonomics.

The slides though, were insanely loose, it felt like I could move them by just staring at them. Maybe I need to find some thicker slide grease for them. The main tuning slide is the one I need to check on as it will slide in all the way after a while as I hold the horn towards my body a lot. The plus side is that it will probably be easy to have a trigger installed in the future. But I doubt it needs one (nice to have maybe)

Intonation wise, most of them notes weren't terribly out of tune, they were easily lippable and they slot in beautifully. I've followed the tuning guide by Mr. Werden and have my 6th partial Eb, and G more or less in tune on default fingering. I was struggling quite a bit with those notes on my horn all these while so this was a huge surprise.

The mouthpiece I'm using is the K&G 4D. I've tried the horn with a Wick 5AL too, and a fellow low brass player said it sounded darker with the 5AL, but I ended up still liking the K&G 4D more, but will keep experimenting and see.

It was definitely a joy to play on this horn, but only time will tell if it's just a placebo effect of me gushing over a different instrument. Definitely experimenting on those two for a bit and see what comes out.

Edit: used it for a concert today and got complimented by a number of members for the sound that came out of my bell, so I think I'm doing something right. My hunch is that it was easier to hear myself from behind the bell that I had an easier time coaxing the horn to do what I wanted it to do.

[ChristianeSparkle]

After 2 more weeks of playing the Neo, it feels like I'm still not too used to the way it plays. The 6th partial G, Ab, A are quite hairy notes compared to the JP, it feels. I was confused for a few days when I tried to make an interval leap up to a 6th partial Ab but I would end up with an odd unusable note instead. I only realised after a few days that because of how easily note slots on the Neo, it was slotting down to an F# instead of the Ab that was in my mind, add that to me unconsciously lipping up to try and match the Ab in my mind and you get a very odd note. Maybe I've gotten lazy from the ease of playing in the lower register that I unconsciously stopped pushing hard enough to play in the higher register.

For the very loose slides, after applying some Hetman #7 Slide Gel, it has gotten a little better. Still a risk of me accidentally pushing the tuning slide in with my belly but it's less frequent. Accidentally opening the spit valve with my belly and having my clothes stained though...is a whole different thing.

[ChristianeSparkle]

An interesting find, for reference of anyone who are seeking answer to this.

I just found out that a JP274 grime gutter fits the Neo. No modifications needed.