Originally posted by JTJ
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Yamaha 642 Neo
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Euphoniums
2008 Willson 2960TA Celebration
1979 Boosey & Hawkes Sovereign (Round Stamp)
Mouthpiece: Denis Wick SM4
Baritone
1975 Besson New Standard
Mouthpiece: Courtois 10
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Originally posted by davewerden View PostAgreed! Looking on the Besson side, we have Steven Mead playing a Prestige and Misa Mead playing a Sovereign. I'm sure Misa could have a Prestige any time she wanted, and is certainly playing on the professional stage, so I assume she simply likes the concept of the Sovereign better. Let's also keep in mind that the Sovereign was the ultimate-top-of-the-line Besson before the Prestige was introduced, and served almost all of the top British players. It'd be hard not to call it a pro horn. I also classify the 642 among the pro horns.
DougAdams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
Concord Band
Winchendon Winds
Townsend Military Band
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Yes they are both pro horns.
642 Maestro was mass production pro model.
842 was introduced as a custom/limited production model - it was hands down better than the 642 at the time.
Then they revamped the Maestro for the brass band market - Neo 642ii. It was so good that the Custom no longer had a clear advantage over the Neo and became a matter of preference.
At least that's how I remembered it.Ted
Besson Prestige BE2052-8G-0 Euphonium
Besson Sovereign 956 Baritone
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Originally posted by superted View PostYamaha provides a 51L with the Neo and they way I understand Japanese engineering - that's the mouthpiece the instrument was designed to operate under. So then you replace that mouthpiece with a bucket (say SM3 classic) and you quickly see why there would be a problem with the tuning slide being too long.
You look at the market of middle class high school student vs hobbyist / professionals then you would understand why they have set the instrument up that way.
When I was watching that video, I was wondering if anyone would think the 842 sounded better? It sounds so thin compares to the 642. But Matonizz prefers the 842 sound, and I know that there is plenty to like about the 842 sound I just don't think the recording captured the true quality of the 842...YEP-842TS, SM4X mouthpiece
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I am sorry for derailing the thread into the whole discussion about what constitutes an "Intermediate" horn and a "professional" horn. Just brought it out because it was a discussion I had just some time ago and I was rather confused/fascinating to hear someone say that many of the horns are considered "intermediate" to that person. Aside from price, he said he can perceive a significant difference in workmanship and the sound that comes out of the horns to classify them as such (e.g. between Neo and Customs/Adams/Geneva OldRoy/Miraphone. Anyway, apologies!
Returning to the topic at hand, I've noticed people have been bringing up the leadpip placement on the Customs, is it possible (or even easy), for any technicians to re-adjust the leadpipe if, say, we bring it to a workshop?"Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"
Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音
Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL
https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/
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This whole business about what horns are "professional" is a digression.
Over my entire career as a performer, I have made 85% of my euph-playing
income playing a Yamaha 321. (Avatar pic was taken at an outdoor quintet gig. I play the horn parts and do most of the arrangements)
Nobody outside the "euphonium bubble" or "academic bubble" knows or cares what horn someone plays.
They just want to hear the tune.
I've been playing for pay for almost 40 years. NOT ONE person in a regular audience
(outside the "euphonium bubble" or "academic bubble") has asked me what type of horn I played.
Most people had no idea what a euphonium is, let alone cared that I wasn't playing a Willson.
Having said that, I never once even contemplated leaving my very nice day job! ;-) ;-)Jim Williams N9EJR (love 10 meter CW)
Formerly Principal Euphonium in a whole
bunch of groups, now just a schlub.
Shires Q41, Yamaha 321, 621 Baritone
Wick 4AL, Wessex 4Y, or whatever I grab.
Conn 50H trombone, Blue P-bone
www.soundcloud.com/jweuph
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Originally posted by ChristianeSparkle View PostI am sorry for derailing the thread into the whole discussion about what constitutes an "Intermediate" horn and a "professional" horn. Just brought it out because it was a discussion I had just some time ago and I was rather confused/fascinating to hear someone say that many of the horns are considered "intermediate" to that person. Aside from price, he said he can perceive a significant difference in workmanship and the sound that comes out of the horns to classify them as such (e.g. between Neo and Customs/Adams/Geneva OldRoy/Miraphone. Anyway, apologies!
Returning to the topic at hand, I've noticed people have been bringing up the leadpipe placement on the Customs, is it possible (or even easy), for any technicians to re-adjust the leadpipe if, say, we bring it to a workshop?
These are people unfamiliar with things such as the law of diminishing returns, and also Custom/Artisan vs professional. As many say, "you make it professional".
Regarding the leadpipe, I guess it would depend on how it is attached. Most of the horns I see now have "floating" leadpipes, while my Sterling has a leadpipe that is soldered the whole length to the bell almost. Floating would definitely be easier to move, BUT would definitely entail bending the pipe a bit. Also there's that whole thing with silver plating and solder work, which can be annoying.Sterling / Perantucci 1065HGS Euphonium, 1952 B&H Imperial Eb Tuba, and a bunch of trombones.
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Superted,
Please see the discussion here about the tuning slide...just as it is a compromise designed to fit a generic player, so is the mouthpiece a compromise to fit a generic player. I didn't like the 51L when I bought my Neo so I swapped the dealer for a Wick 4. Now I use the Wick 4 equivalent of the Wedge and like it a lot.
I wouldn't necessarily call the SM3 a bucket--many players use 3s or equivalent from orher manufacturers. I used a 3 and a 3.5 for quite a while with my Miraphone 5050.Jim Williams N9EJR (love 10 meter CW)
Formerly Principal Euphonium in a whole
bunch of groups, now just a schlub.
Shires Q41, Yamaha 321, 621 Baritone
Wick 4AL, Wessex 4Y, or whatever I grab.
Conn 50H trombone, Blue P-bone
www.soundcloud.com/jweuph
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Does anyone know if the Neo has undergone any developments/refinements since its issue? If so, what were they?
ALSO: I can't find any info on Yamaha serial numbers--do they still have that goofy policy of not releasing serial number info?Last edited by Snorlax; 08-07-2019, 01:46 PM.Jim Williams N9EJR (love 10 meter CW)
Formerly Principal Euphonium in a whole
bunch of groups, now just a schlub.
Shires Q41, Yamaha 321, 621 Baritone
Wick 4AL, Wessex 4Y, or whatever I grab.
Conn 50H trombone, Blue P-bone
www.soundcloud.com/jweuph
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Originally posted by Snorlax View PostDoes anyone know if the Neo has undergone any developments/refinements since its issue? If so, what were they?
ALSO: I can't find any info on Yamaha serial numbers--do they still have that goofy policy of not releasing serial number info?James Kircoff
Genesee Wind Symphony - principal euphonium (Adams E3 Custom .60mm yellow brass bell w/ K&G 3.5)
Capital City Brass Band (2019 NABBA 2nd section champions) - 1st baritone (Besson BE956 w/ Denis Wick 6BY)
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I just found out Steven Walsh is no longer a Yamaha Artist and he just put up his Neo for sale on Facebook. I wonder what he's switching to?"Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"
Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音
Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL
https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/
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Originally posted by ChristianeSparkle View PostI just found out Steven Walsh is no longer a Yamaha Artist and he just put up his Neo for sale on Facebook. I wonder what he's switching to?Dave Werden (ASCAP)
Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
Adams Artist (Adams E3)
Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
YouTube: dwerden
Facebook: davewerden
Twitter: davewerden
Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium
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I've had the pleasure to play a Yamaha 642 Neo (without trigger) for a few hours lately & even tested it out in band rehearsals.I was blown away by how the horn handles. Compared to my own horn, the Besson Sovereign & Sterling Virtuoso with red brass bell (both of which I got to play for half an hour earlier in the year), it felt like it took less effort to make it do what I wanted to do. The Besson Sovereign and Sterling Virtuoso definitely sounded and handled better than my JP, but it felt like I still needed considerable effort to slot and shape the notes. The Neo felt like it handled differently from them all.
Ergonomics-wise, it felt rather comfortable for me, but, having a long body meant I still had to hold it up a lot, I definitely need a pillow for it. However, I wasn't aching as much as I used to with my own horn. I noticed the slides are slightly nearer to the horn's body too, which felt comfortable to hold for me. Overall, I's say I like the ergonomics.
The slides though, were insanely loose, it felt like I could move them by just staring at them. Maybe I need to find some thicker slide grease for them. The main tuning slide is the one I need to check on as it will slide in all the way after a while as I hold the horn towards my body a lot. The plus side is that it will probably be easy to have a trigger installed in the future. But I doubt it needs one (nice to have maybe)
Intonation wise, most of them notes weren't terribly out of tune, they were easily lippable and they slot in beautifully. I've followed the tuning guide by Mr. Werden and have my 6th partial Eb, and G more or less in tune on default fingering. I was struggling quite a bit with those notes on my horn all these while so this was a huge surprise.
The mouthpiece I'm using is the K&G 4D. I've tried the horn with a Wick 5AL too, and a fellow low brass player said it sounded darker with the 5AL, but I ended up still liking the K&G 4D more, but will keep experimenting and see.
It was definitely a joy to play on this horn, but only time will tell if it's just a placebo effect of me gushing over a different instrument. Definitely experimenting on those two for a bit and see what comes out.
Edit: used it for a concert today and got complimented by a number of members for the sound that came out of my bell, so I think I'm doing something right. My hunch is that it was easier to hear myself from behind the bell that I had an easier time coaxing the horn to do what I wanted it to do.Last edited by ChristianeSparkle; 09-22-2019, 06:44 PM."Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"
Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音
Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL
https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/
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After 2 more weeks of playing the Neo, it feels like I'm still not too used to the way it plays. The 6th partial G, Ab, A are quite hairy notes compared to the JP, it feels. I was confused for a few days when I tried to make an interval leap up to a 6th partial Ab but I would end up with an odd unusable note instead. I only realised after a few days that because of how easily note slots on the Neo, it was slotting down to an F# instead of the Ab that was in my mind, add that to me unconsciously lipping up to try and match the Ab in my mind and you get a very odd note. Maybe I've gotten lazy from the ease of playing in the lower register that I unconsciously stopped pushing hard enough to play in the higher register.
For the very loose slides, after applying some Hetman #7 Slide Gel, it has gotten a little better. Still a risk of me accidentally pushing the tuning slide in with my belly but it's less frequent. Accidentally opening the spit valve with my belly and having my clothes stained though...is a whole different thing."Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"
Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音
Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL
https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/
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An interesting find, for reference of anyone who are seeking answer to this.
I just found out that a JP274 grime gutter fits the Neo. No modifications needed."Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"
Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音
Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL
https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/
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