King 2280 vs. Bach B1110

[SaintsFan]

Are the King 2280 and Bach B1110 indentical instruments? I have read that the Bach model is a clone of the King 2280. Is that right? Does the Bach have the 3rd Valve Slide trigger like the King?

If they are made identically, which would you say is the best instrument of the two?

I know the Bach B1110 has been discontinued. Is King still producing the Model 2280? I don't see it on their website.

[dkstone]

King 2280 vs. Bach B1110

I have read that the earlier models of the Bach 1110 were clones of the Yamaha 321, and some later models were clones of the King 2280. However, I have no personal experience with Bach euphoniums, and I was unable to find any listings for euphoniums on their current website. I am sure there are others on this site who can shed more light on that subject.

King does still make the 2280, but they do make it difficult to find on their website. Try the link below:

http://www.kingwinds.com/conte...cts.php?sub=Euphonium

Conn used to produce the 19I, which was identical to the King 2280 with the exception that the third valve slide was optional as opposed to standard equipment on the King.

King 2280

[Snorlax]

King 2280 vs. Bach B1110

The Bach 1110 is a Yamaha 321.

The "Holton" in my avatar is also a Yamaha 321.

[SaintsFan]

King 2280 vs. Bach B1110

Does the Yamaha have a 3rd valve trigger?

[davewerden]

King 2280 vs. Bach B1110

Originally posted by: SaintsFan Does the Yamaha have a 3rd valve trigger?

Nope.

[Snorlax]

King 2280 vs. Bach B1110

No, it doesn't, but it doesn't particularly need it in my experience.

[RickF]

King 2280 vs. Bach B1110

If you're thinking about getting a 4 valve horn like the King 2280 or Yamaha 321, be aware that it's possible to use your left hand to operate the fourth valve instead of depending on your weak right hand pinky. Here's a video that demonstrates that use:

Using the 4th valve

[warumtobendieheiden]

King 2280 vs. Bach B1110

Left hand to the 4th valve? Prior to acquiring a 3+1 horn, I always played the 321 that way, right from the first time I picked it up! Can't imagine doing it any other way.

[Snorlax]

King 2280 vs. Bach B1110

I spend about 75% of time on my 5050 these days (3+1) and 25% of the time on my 321 (4 inline).

Even in the days before I had a 3+1, the thought never struck me to play the 4th valve on the 321 with my left hand.

I'd find it highly unergonomic and I'd be worried that the 4th valve would stick (if horn bought second hand) or would seat incorrectly due to the odd angle of the LH stroke (if purchased new).

Is the pinky weaker than the other fingers? I suppose so. Is it so weak that it's unusable? Nope. Do pianists use their RH pinky? Reed Players? String players? Yep. Is using the LH to finger the fourth valve unergonomic? It was to me. If one uses the LH for the 4th valve, will one ever develop any strength or dexterity in the pinky? Nope. Does one risk damage to the 4th valve by fingering it with the LH? Could be?

Just my left-handed 2 euros worth.

Snorlax.

[SaintsFan]

King 2280 vs. Bach B1110

CONFUSED!

I have read somewhere (will have to find it again) that the Bach 1110 was a clone of the King 2280 and, as I understand both have the 3rd valve trigger.

If the Bach 1110 is a clone of the Yamaha, as Snorlax has pointed out, where is the 3rd valve. Doesn't sound like the same instrument to me.

Hope y'all can shed some light on this for me.

Thanks, Eric

[RickF]

King 2280 vs. Bach B1110

The Yamaha 321 does not have a 3rd valve trigger, the King 2280 does. See this link for some pictures:

King 2280

Snorlax,

You're correct in saying that using the left hand to operate the 4th valve on a '4 valve in line' model might cause problems with the valve sticking. You sure wouldn't be pressing the valve down directly as you would if used as intended. Plus using the LH on the 4th valve when standing would be very difficult and still be able to support the horn.

When I move my pinky, my ring finger moves almost as much because of the tendons being shared. This is one reason I looked for a 3+1 setup to start with many years ago.

[prototypedenNIS]

King 2280 vs. Bach B1110

Originally posted by: SaintsFan

CONFUSED!


I have read somewhere (will have to find it again) that the Bach 1110 was a clone of the  King 2280 and, as I understand both have the 3rd valve trigger.


If the Bach 1110 is a clone of the Yamaha, as Snorlax has pointed out, where is the 3rd valve. Doesn't sound like the same instrument to me.


Hope y'all can shed some light on this for me.
Thanks, Eric

A long time ago Bach brasses were made by King. I've only seen 3v models from that time.
Then Yamaha Started making them until 2005 ish as well as building for Holton. At this point the B1110 was a "Bach USA... Made in Japan" stencilled YEP321.
Then King took over again for Bach and King briefly made 2280 stencilled as a Stradivarius which had the "trigger". I only saw it in a brochure and price list. Conn Selmer never has been able to keep their website current since forming and it never updated the photo on it until it discontinued it.
Now, Bach doesn't have aby euphs and Holtons are made in Brazil bt Weril.

[prototypedenNIS]

King 2280 vs. Bach B1110

Also, using your left hand like a 3+1 on a 4v inline will only cause problems if your technique is applying side pressure.
Direct vertical force and you're OK.

[dkstone]

King 2280 vs. Bach B1110

The history of the Bach B1110 as explained by prototypedenNIS is what I remember reading about that model. Thanks for the clarification - I knew somebody would know the particulars. Chances are that most instruments with the B1110 label you will encounter will be a Yamaha 321 clone, but there is an odd chance you may encounter a rare 2280 clone with the Bach label.

A lot of the old American brands that were the leaders in euphonium and tuba production have either diminished or ceased production completely since the amalgamation of those brands into the Conn-Selmer conglomerate. I find it a little sad that you can't buy a Conn euphonium or a Holton tuba these days - gone the way of the Oldsmobile Rocket 88 and the Hudson Hornet.

[SaintsFan]

King 2280 vs. Bach B1110

o.k. very informative discussion for me! Thanks to everbody for all the good information! I would like to hear what your preference as to which model you would choose, given a choice between these two. Thanks