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Thread: yamaha neo euphonium?

  1. #1

    yamaha neo euphonium?

    Dillon music posted a photo from NAMM of what looks like a new yamaha neo euphonium. Anyone there? Anyone have any details?

    --
    Barry

  2. #2

    yamaha neo euphonium?

    I think that's a typo, it probably should be "new" euphonium.

  3. yamaha neo euphonium?

    I think Neo might actually be correct here.

    http://usa.yamaha.com/products...yep-642ii/?mode=model


    I cant tell a difference from the 642 but it may just be me.

  4. #4

    yamaha neo euphonium?

    Pretty cool. I'm quite curious to know what tweaks and changes were made to the design and specs.



    Is it just me or does the picture of the Laquer version have the "infamous" Rose Brass leadpipe? Edit: According to the Specs it's "Gold Brass" interesting



    Granted that is a picture of the actualy euphonium and not a stock placeholder pic...


  5. #5

    yamaha neo euphonium?

    Go figure.

  6. #6

    yamaha neo euphonium?

    Originally posted by: Nuck81Is it just me or does the picture of the Laquer version have the "infamous" Rose Brass leadpipe? Edit: According to the Specs it's "Gold Brass" interesting
    The term Gold Brass is often used for what I would call Red Brass. The bell of the Sterling I play is that type of material. I call it Red Brass and so does Sterling. I think there really may be a physical difference between Red Brass and Gold Brass, probably in the amount of copper in the alloy. Yellow Brass has less copper than either.

    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
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  7. #7

    yamaha neo euphonium?

    Originally posted by: davewerden
    Originally posted by: Nuck81Is it just me or does the picture of the Laquer version have the "infamous" Rose Brass leadpipe? Edit: According to the Specs it's "Gold Brass" interesting


    The term Gold Brass is often used for what I would call Red Brass. The bell of the Sterling I play is that type of material. I call it Red Brass and so does Sterling. I think there really may be a physical difference between Red Brass and Gold Brass, probably in the amount of copper in the alloy. Yellow Brass has less copper than either.




    Thanks!!



    Is this mainly a cost/production issue that determines the use of different alloys or is there a significant difference in the type of sound, timbre, and tone of the instrument depending on where the alloy is placed and what type there is.

    I never really quite got why certain instruments had different leadpipe or bells than the rest of the instrument. I always assumed the Rose brass lead pipes was used because it was cheaper since you typically found it on budget priced horns. The same reason Monel Valves have become basically standard in most horns...




  8. #8

    yamaha neo euphonium?

    Red brass is composed of about 85 percent copper and 15 percent zinc. It has a more reddish tint is due to the high volume of copper, thus the name. Yellow brass usually contains between 60 to 70 percent copper and 30 to 40 percent zinc. Both may contain traces of lead and tin (generally no more than 2% of the total alloy), as well.

    There are two possibilities for gold brass. The first is that it fits between yellow and red brass and has a copper content between 70 to 85 percent. There is also a chance it contains traces of aluminum in addition to or instead of lead or tin to improve it's resistance to oxidation and stiffen the metal a bit.

    The lower the copper content, in theory, the brighter the sound, though I think the thickness of metal and bell shape may have more to do with that than what alloy is used. Zinc is slightly heavier than copper (they're next to each other on the periodic table of elements), so in theory all other things being equal a yellow brass bell should be slightly denser than a red/rose brass bell.

    Your mileage may vary, but my experience with owning a variety of yellow brass, rose brass, and nickel silver plated instruments is that the more mass an instrument has the less likely it it to rattle or distort at high volumes, so the thickness and engineering of the metal may be more important than the type of metal used to make the instrument.

    =======================
    Dale Long
    South Burlington VT
    Willson 2900S/Denis Wick SM3M
    B.MusEd, SUNY Potsdam, 1979
    M.M., Northwestern University, 1980
    USAF Band of the West, 1981-1985
    =======================

  9. #9

    yamaha neo euphonium?

    Originally posted by: Nuck81

    I always assumed the Rose brass lead pipes was used because it was cheaper since you typically found it on budget priced horns.* The same reason Monel Valves have become basically standard in most horns...



    *
    My understanding is that red brass is more resistant to red rot (less zinc in it) than some of these other types of brass. There may be a tradeoff here between corrosion resistance and various sound qualities. If so, that would explain red brass being used in the lead pipes of student-level horns; the lead pipe is small and gets a lot of moisture (some of which is less innocuous than plain old condensation!), and they may not expect students to keep the instruments as clean as more experienced players.

    --Frank
    Frank Manola

    Pan American Eb, Meinl Weston 20, Wessex "Solo" EEb, King 2341 tubas
    Besson New Standard, TE 1150 compensating euphs
    Park Street Brass
    Old South UMC Brass & Organ, Reading MA
    Wakefield Retired Men's Club Band
    Windjammers Unlimited

  10. #10

    yamaha neo euphonium?

    Interesting. Specs look identical to the YEP-642, I'm curious as to where they made the tweaks, other than the leadpipe. Neo is yamaha's moniker for their new line of instruments aimed at british brass band use. I had assumed they were simply going to rebrand the 842 as a "neo" instrument, but it looks like this YEP-642II is it instead and they are leaving the YEP-842S aimed at soloists?

    Gold or rose brass is a term often used to describe brass that is halfway in zinc/copper mix between yellow brass and red brass. To me, it makes the most difference in the bell, followed by the leadpipe, and is much less noticable in the rest of the instrument. On some of my trombones I have gold brass tuning slides, because in a trombone the main tuning slide has a larger effect on the feel and sound. I STRONGLY prefer yellow brass bells, I feel that I have a less clear and focused sound with gold or red brass.

    Last spring at NABBA the jupiter booth dude pointed out to me that jupiter's compensating euph has gold brass tuning slides on all the valves and a gold brass leadpipe. He claimed it gave it a darker sound. I call BS on that -- I believe gold brass is used in those areas to aid in corrosion resistance. Yellow brass is vulnerable to "red rot" -- a process where acidic saliva and food particles in contact with the brass for long periods of time can actually leach the zinc right out of the brass and leave pink spots which can actually eventually corrode all the way through. I recently purchased a VERY expensive bass trumpet (new it would cost almost double a that of a new pro euphonium--so I'm sure cost is no object in them making it out of whatever they want!) that is made with a yellow brass bell but the leadpipe and ferrules are all nickel silver and all the rest of the tubing is gold brass. I asked the makers about this type of construction when I visited their workshop in germany many years ago and they told me it was for corrosion resistance.

    Shires trombones, for example are available with gold brass leadpipes because they have a different sound and feel. Shires describes it as a "denser" sound. I believe that this has a much bigger effect on trombone for two reasons. 1: trombone is such a direct instrument. 2: trombone inner slides are pretty much always made from chrome-plated nickel silver, more for its strength and hardness than for acoustic reasons. Nickel silver instruments are often described as having a more brilliant, lighter, or more brittle sound. I think making the shift in leadpipe material makes a bigger difference on trombone where you have the difference between the leadpipe and the rest of the beginning of the tubing. Because of these two things my gut feeling is that it would have a much smaller effect on euphonium than it does on trombone, where it is already pretty subtle.

    So has yamaha made the leadpipe out of gold brass for corrosion resistance reasons or for the sound? Beats me!

    --
    Barry

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