Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 37

Thread: A tale of a future music ed major and TWO Bessons

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,574

    A tale of a future music ed major and TWO Bessons

    Originally posted by: lsanders2012

    It was made in Germany.

    She is selling it because she is a Tuba player, and she bought the horn from a former student who switched over to a Wilson. She (from what I understood) bought the horn so another student of hers or I could purchase it.


    NOW ON TO SOMETHING ELSE.

    I have lost some sleep the last couple of nights, thinking about which horn to get, everything logical tells me that I should save my money get the used horn and spend some of the money I save (around $100) to get the extra stuff I want.
    BUT! Me being a human, I would love that feeling of being the first person (other than Steven Mead) to play that horn, being able to take it out of the plastic knowing that that horn is truly my horn.
    IF you read on tubenet I have posted this same forum, and there is a very funny post that has to do with why new horns are awesome.
    Since the first horn in question was made in Germany... and you're sure you want that model horn... I see no reason not to save some $$ and buy that slightly used horn. About the post on TubeNet, I think I read that post you're referring to and it's just one person's opinion. (Sometimes there's good stuff on that site... but other times there's a lot of silliness. )

    In the end you have to be the one to decide. I personally would have no reservation buying a used horn... especially being in such pristine condition. I'm still playing the horn (YEP-641) that I bought used 10 years ago. PLUS, you get to try out that horn to make sure it plays right for you. Good luck with making your decision. But, don't lose any sleep over it.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton Brandon Jones sig mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Greensleeves (arr. Alfred Reed)


  2. A tale of a future music ed major and TWO Bessons

    Originally posted by: lsanders2012

    NOW ON TO SOMETHING ELSE.

    I have lost some sleep the last couple of nights, thinking about which horn to get, everything logical tells me that I should save my money get the used horn and spend some of the money I save (around $100) to get the extra stuff I want.
    BUT! Me being a human, I would love that feeling of being the first person (other than Steven Mead) to play that horn, being able to take it out of the plastic knowing that that horn is truly my horn.
    IF you read on tubenet I have posted this same forum, and there is a very funny post that has to do with why new horns are awesome.
    I purchased my German made 2051-2 slightly (6 mos.) used and love the horn. Since the horn was in near new condition, it really did not matter to me that I wasn't the first. I now have had the horn since Aug. 2007 and would not part with it. If you have played the used horn and the price is right, get it! You'll get the gig bag and as long as all of the pieces and parts are there...all is well.

    Doug

    Sterling Virtuoso 1065HGS & Adams E3 Prototype 0.70 Top Sprung valves
    Sterling Virtuoso 1050HGS baritone
    New England Brass Band
    Winchendon Winds/Townsend Military Band

  3. A tale of a future music ed major and TWO Bessons

    Originally posted by: Eupher6

    ...All had issues with the valves bedding in, though admittedly this Virtuoso was dirtier than the others during that process. Just the nature of the beast.

    With enough cleaning and steady, regular practice, the problem went away and the valves are the best I've ever had on any horn.

    Bottom line is, I know what's happening with my horns.* When they're dirty, I clean 'em. It's really that simple.
    There are two threads and I have already replied to the O.P., however I wanted to comment on the need to clean a new horn multiple times.

    I just purchased a new Virtuoso 18 mos. ago. Previous to this I had a nearly new Besson (pre-owned for less than 6 mos and never washed by the previous owner). The Sterling was much dirtier (internally) than the Besson's and Yamaha's I have tried. Having been to the shop where these are hand made, the issue is that Paul Riggett and crew buff the horns both before and after they go out for plating. After that, they assemble them for shipment. The buffing rouge/powder that is in the air gets through the horn, settles, and then solidifies in the internal tubing. Paul does not have the facilities to give the horns a complete "bath" prior to shipment. Since the outside finish is in pristine shape and since he doesn't oil the horns prior to shipment (they ship dry to keep from gumming up in shipment or storage), they go right into a plastic bag and shipping material to be sent to the customer.

    The black buffing dust does not wash completely clean with just soap and water. Valve oil will tend to act as a solvent and the black crud continues to come out of the leadpipe, valves, and tubing through several wash and rinse cycles. It took me about 6 mnonths and 3 or so bath cycles to get my Virtuoso through its break-in.

    Not all horns require as much work as the Sterlings, but the need to carefully clean the horns duiring breakin is still an issue that I would be cocnerned about.

    Doug
    Sterling Virtuoso 1065HGS & Adams E3 Prototype 0.70 Top Sprung valves
    Sterling Virtuoso 1050HGS baritone
    New England Brass Band
    Winchendon Winds/Townsend Military Band

  4. #14

    A tale of a future music ed major and TWO Bessons

    Originally posted by: daruby
    Originally posted by: Eupher6 ...All had issues with the valves bedding in, though admittedly this Virtuoso was dirtier than the others during that process. Just the nature of the beast. With enough cleaning and steady, regular practice, the problem went away and the valves are the best I've ever had on any horn. Bottom line is, I know what's happening with my horns. When they're dirty, I clean 'em. It's really that simple.
    There are two threads and I have already replied to the O.P., however I wanted to comment on the need to clean a new horn multiple times. I just purchased a new Virtuoso 18 mos. ago. Previous to this I had a nearly new Besson (pre-owned for less than 6 mos and never washed by the previous owner). The Sterling was much dirtier (internally) than the Besson's and Yamaha's I have tried. Having been to the shop where these are hand made, the issue is that Paul Riggett and crew buff the horns both before and after they go out for plating. After that, they assemble them for shipment. The buffing rouge/powder that is in the air gets through the horn, settles, and then solidifies in the internal tubing. Paul does not have the facilities to give the horns a complete "bath" prior to shipment. Since the outside finish is in pristine shape and since he doesn't oil the horns prior to shipment (they ship dry to keep from gumming up in shipment or storage), they go right into a plastic bag and shipping material to be sent to the customer. The black buffing dust does not wash completely clean with just soap and water. Valve oil will tend to act as a solvent and the black crud continues to come out of the leadpipe, valves, and tubing through several wash and rinse cycles. It took me about 6 mnonths and 3 or so bath cycles to get my Virtuoso through its break-in. Not all horns require as much work as the Sterlings, but the need to carefully clean the horns duiring breakin is still an issue that I would be cocnerned about. Doug
    Thanks for your comments, Doug. Puts a great deal of perspective on this tiny sidebar issue.

    U.S. Army, Retired (built mid-1950s)
    Adams E2 Euph (built 2017)
    Boosey & Co. Imperial Euph (built 1941)
    Edwards B454 Bass Trombone (built 2012)
    Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb tuba (built 1958)
    Kanstul 33-T lBBb tuba (built 2010)

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    421

    A tale of a future music ed major and TWO Bessons (Cleaning Your Horn)

    My horn hasn't been washed/cleaned in many years. Can anyone share the proper technique to do a thorough job? I've looked through this board for an archives or a section on it but I haven't found anything.

    Miraphone 5050 Ambassador
    Mp: Wick SM4 Ultra X
    The San Diego Concert Band
    Big Brass Quartet- tuba ensemble (EETT)

  6. #16

    A tale of a future music ed major and TWO Bessons (Cleaning Your Horn)


  7. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    421

    A tale of a future music ed major and TWO Bessons (Cleaning Your Horn)

    I obviously didn't look hard enough. Thanks!

    Miraphone 5050 Ambassador
    Mp: Wick SM4 Ultra X
    The San Diego Concert Band
    Big Brass Quartet- tuba ensemble (EETT)

  8. A tale of a future music ed major and TWO Bessons

    Originally posted by: Eupher6
    For whom? You? How many new horns have you broken in? This is my fourth. The first three were Bessons - in 1982, 1984, and for all intents and purposes with a slightly used 967 that I bought in 1995. All had issues with the valves bedding in, though admittedly this Virtuoso was dirtier than the others during that process. Just the nature of the beast.
    To clarify, I'm a band instrument repair technician. I work on Thousands of instruments every year and am responsible for a fleet of instruments made by several manufacturers that are rented. I have been doing this job for about 7 years.

    The buffing compound explanation makes sense and would explain why I've never noticed it as we have an ultrasonic cleaner which takes rouge and tripoli out quite easily.

    The problem isn't that your instrument needs to be cleaned every couple of weeks, it needs to be cleaned PROPERLY once.

  9. #19

    A tale of a future music ed major and TWO Bessons

    Originally posted by: prototypedenNIS
    Originally posted by: Eupher6 For whom? You? How many new horns have you broken in? This is my fourth. The first three were Bessons - in 1982, 1984, and for all intents and purposes with a slightly used 967 that I bought in 1995. All had issues with the valves bedding in, though admittedly this Virtuoso was dirtier than the others during that process. Just the nature of the beast.


    To clarify, I'm a band instrument repair technician. I work on Thousands of instruments every year and am responsible for a fleet of instruments made by several manufacturers that are rented. I have been doing this job for about 7 years. The buffing compound explanation makes sense and would explain why I've never noticed it as we have an ultrasonic cleaner which takes rouge and tripoli out quite easily. The problem isn't that your instrument needs to be cleaned every couple of weeks, it needs to be cleaned PROPERLY once.
    Even that doesn't line up with what Doug is saying. He says, pretty clearly, that there's a need to clean a new horn "multiple times". And he explains why in some detail.

    I might agree with you in principle - having a chem clean facility or ultrasonic facility at my beck and call would be the way to go - but I don't have that luxury. Ergo, the horn goes into the bathtub and I use my various snakes and brushes to get as deeply as I'm going to get. The issue works itself out in the end. No need to pony up the extra cash to clean an otherwise new horn when I can do it myself.

    I note you didn't answer the question, though. Not that it's important, but just to set the record straight, I'll ask it again - how many horns have you personally broken in? As a player, not as a repair tech?

    U.S. Army, Retired (built mid-1950s)
    Adams E2 Euph (built 2017)
    Boosey & Co. Imperial Euph (built 1941)
    Edwards B454 Bass Trombone (built 2012)
    Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb tuba (built 1958)
    Kanstul 33-T lBBb tuba (built 2010)

  10. #20

    A tale of a future music ed major and TWO Bessons

    Originally posted by: Eupher6

    Even that doesn't line up with what Doug is saying. He says, pretty clearly, that there's a need to clean a new horn "multiple times".
    No, he doesn't: he explained why HE needed to clean the Sterling HE purchased several times and said that HE would be concerned with the need to clean a new horn carefully during the break-in period; he did not at any point claim that it is necessary that ALL new horns to cleaned multiple times.

    Lapping compound residue in the knuckles of slide tubes of new instruments is a common occurrence. If all mfgs went to the trouble and expense of chem cleaning, as opposed to simply power washing, their instruments to ensure that the detritus of mfg and assembly were COMPLETELY removed prior to shipping, this would not be an issue. For various reason, many, if not most, mfgs--including some of the "big boys"--don't: maybe they don't have the facilities; maybe constructing and maintaining building facilities that comply with all the relevant safety, storage, disposal, and environmental regulations, is cost-prohibitive; maybe it would raise the cost of the horn too far above that of their competitors; maybe potential buyers would rather pay slightly less and do it themselves rather than pay extra to have it done by the mfg; maybe a combination of the above.

    The bottom line is that it is prudent to assume that a new horn will need to be cleaned thoroughly during the break-in period: whether one does that by having it chem cleaned or giving it multiple baths is the buyer's prerogative; whether it's better in the long run for the instrument to do it in one shot or in stages is a matter of conjecture.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •