david childs -- back to besson

[bbocaner]

Appears that David Childs is dropping the eminence he helped develop and going back to a prestige.

http://euphonium.net/home.php?newsID=210

My inner cynic is snickering -- I've never been a big fan of York products, but I feel like this shows that the commercial considerations of sponsorship are sometimes more important than having the absolute best instrument.

[JTJ]

david childs -- back to besson

Well, just to speculate, I would not be surprised if he was given a Besson to use which was essentially a York Eminence with the Besson name and maybe Besson trigger system on it. The press release does quote David as stating "Assisting Besson with the future development of their iconic euphonium range is a mouth watering prospect,..."

[booboo]

david childs -- back to besson

Shame on you all for being so cynical. Maybe there will be some good bargains going on end of stock York Eminence euphs soon - perhaps with an alliance mouthpiece or two thrown into the deal!

[davewerden]

david childs -- back to besson

I would necessarily call it cynical. David may very well prefer the York. But if you look at the conferences programs such as you see at ITEC and similar events, the manufacturers often help (or fully) sponsor artists' appearances. The conferences can not afford to pay all the performers who appear. I'm sure David would not play a poor instrument just to be sponsored, but perhaps it is a valid consideration to ask two questions:

1. Would I prefer to stay with my York but have to stay home more often?

2. Would I prefer to switch to another quality brand with some similarities and be funded for more appearance?

Which would you choose for him? For my money, I'd rather be able to hear him more often.

The other factor is that his change is from a brand that is no longer being made. Part of the reason artists endorse a brand is that they wish to encourage others to give it a try. Aren't most of us that way, even when not being paid for our opinions? If you have a car you really like, don't you instictively want to spread the word to other drivers? For instrumentalists, we wish to encourage others to play a good instrument. It is not fully satisfying or satisfactory to tell them to look for a good used York - especially when there ARE other good choices out there.

[booboo]

david childs -- back to besson

I understand your point with regard to the balance of commercial,personal and practical reasons for endorsement. Homer Simpson had similar issues with "Powersauce" in one show.

I agree with a post you made on another thread too, that there were probably too many top level horn manufacturers for the market to support, and there may even be more contraction in the market yet perhaps?

[davewerden]

david childs -- back to besson

Originally posted by: booboo...there may even be more contraction in the market yet perhaps?

Very hard to predict. Don't forget that U.K. Besson's money trouble began and continued during pretty good financial times. Times like this make for a lot of potential for change, too. It forces all makes to become more efficient, which is probably not a bad thing. And which ones will take advantage of the changing situation when the world gets more healthy financially?

During WWII, I believe it was, there were a couple big department stores you may know of: Montgomery Ward and Sears. MW tightened up and played it very safe. Sears went out on a limb and began expanding store locations. That gave Sears a boost during the recovery that MW never overcame. Seen any Montgomery Ward stores at the local mall lately? I suppose the trick is just timing the expansion right, so you don't run out of cash before things improve.

[bbocaner]

david childs -- back to besson

In most cases I don't believe there is an awful lot of money moving around for these sponsorships. My dad was a buffet crampon clarinet artist and I think all he ever got out of it was a few free instruments. (Oh yeah, and he used his connections to get me the very first GS-series Besson sold in the USA back when both companies were under Boosey & Hawkes...) For artists that are doing a lot of clinics and conferences there may be help with travel money. I'm sure York was helping Black Dyke Band and Cory Band with a TON of travel money to all their contests. Did every member of Black Dyke feel that the York instruments were better than whatever they were using before the deal? Does this explain why Steven Mead doesn't play Sterling anymore? Because they as a smaller company weren't able to fund as many trips and performances?

I feel like the subtext of all the york advertising was "david childs chooses the eminence because he feels it's the best". The truth was either:

"David Childs chose the eminence because it was pretty close to the best and they were able to put together the best package to help raise his profile, help with travel money, and/or promise that they'd use his feedback to continue to develop what might someday hopefully become the best."

or

"David childs chose eminence because it was the best but now that that's not an option he'll use something else because they are able to put together the best package to help raise his profile, help with travel money, and/or promise that they'll use his feedback to continue to develop what might someday hopefully become the best."

I don't really know what I'm getting at here other than pointing out that the whole issue is a little murky. Maybe for him there was very little difference between the two and so it made sense to go with who was offering the best sponsorship deal (or a sponsorship deal at all). To my taste, there was a HUGE difference in the quality of the new Bessons to the Yorks and I would gladly have paid several thousand MORE for a Besson rather than a York.

[JTJ]

david childs -- back to besson

Barry -- how about a third possibility:

"David Childs chose the York Eminence because he wanted a somewhat different sound than the Besson Prestige which Steve Mead was involved in setting up for Buffet, a difference which made the York the best instrument for him. Now that York has been discontinued he will return to Besson, where he will be involved with product development."

Murky is the right word to use. We really don't know what the TRUTH is.

[Snorlax]

david childs -- back to besson

As I put at the bottom of the last page of my recital programs:

"Yamaha Corp. pays Jim Williams a substantial retainer fee to say that he plays Besson instruments exclusively."

(But now it will have to be "Miraphone International pays Jim Williams a substantial retainer fee to say that he plays Besson instruments exclusively.") :-)

[warumtobendieheiden]

david childs -- back to besson

You had better believe there was grumbling in Sterling's community of dealers and distributors when Michael Dodd, who had strongly endorsed Sterling and asserted that he purchased one WITH HIS VERY OWN MONEY, 'defected' to Besson.

But as far as I'm aware, not a word of criticism was voiced openly because everybody knows the economic realities of the business.

[davewerden]

david childs -- back to besson

A factor I forgot to mention earlier is part of my reason for switching from Besson to Sterling. At that time the Besson company was not really responsive to concerns players had (especially from the USA, so it seemed) about the horn. Sterling WAS and still IS listening. Suddenly my input mattered. It was much more satisfying - not an ego trip, but a desire to see the euphonium breed improve.

I had toyed with the idea of approaching a particular manufacturer a couple of times during that period. I would have considered switching brands if that company would have been willing to make some changes. But they seemed happy enough with what they had and I didn't see much hope that they were open to the kind of change I had in mind. Plus they seemed to be selling well, so...

David may truly be excited about working with Besson. With his input, there may be a different model sometime - you never know! In the meantime, he's such a fine player that I'm sure he will get the results he wants out of the existing Besson models one way or the other. It would be darned difficult for any good horn to resist his instincts for sound.

[warumtobendieheiden]

david childs -- back to besson

I would trot out that tired old equation: it's 75% player, 15% mouthpiece, 10% horn. Nudge the percentages around a little if you like.

[hald]

david childs -- back to besson

I saw David Childs at ITEC last year in L.A and he was phenomenal! I bought a York about 2 weeks ago, got a very good price, and have been very happy with it so far. I'm not surprised that Mr. Childs has gone to Besson. I would have considered buying a Besson instead of the York. But I haven't seen a new Besson here on the west coast, while I was able to play the York models. On the down side, several dealers commeneted to me on Besson how long it takes to get parts and how Besson seems unresponsive to them. I hope the Besson marketing is successful and the service gets better. A Besson might be in my future...though I am thoroughly enjoying my York.

-hald

[bbocaner]

david childs -- back to besson

Congrats on your recent purchase, hald. Picking out an instrument is difficult everywhere. Even the big east-coast music stores that used to have an inventory of a dozen Bessons and a dozen Willsons just don't do that anymore -- they'll get ONE in for you once you've put down your credit card. Big online retailers like WWBW might have a bunch, but chances are those are the ones that have already been picked through at the distributor. Stores like Dillons or CMC may have a few of a particular line or model that they promote for whatever reason in stock (which sounds like what happened to you with York).

I've heard from a few people that getting York parts from Schreiber/Keilwerth was even more difficult than getting Besson parts from Buffet Crampon. And it's a moot point now that you're going to be getting York parts from Buffet Crampon anyways, or possibly not getting them at all.

[JorgEuphonium]

david childs -- back to besson

Hello everyone!

I just read the news through Facebook's. The truth that I believe the return of David Besson has been more out of obligation than his desire of wanting to return. Since David was in York, I really liked its sound than with the old besson (I love his sound on the CD "Celtic Charm").
The new album "moto perpetuo" is still recorded with York?

I have a Besson Prestige and I love and I've never tried a York, but there is much difference between them?

Greetings!

Jorge