Finale vs. Sibelius

[davewerden]

This may be a hornet's nest, but...

What is your feeling about the strengths/value of Sibelius vs. Finale software for notation?

[RickF]

Finale vs. Sibelius

I've used Finale for about 9 years - but I'm still on the 2001 version (I really need to upgrade). Since I know Finale pretty well, I'll probably stick with their product, but think I might be able to get along with "PrintMusic" version.

One thing that I spend a lot of time on when 'cleaning up' my project is what I call 'dynamics crash'... where I have to move the pp or f around either side of crescendos and diminuendos and away from notes. Don't know if this has been improved in later versions of Finale.

I see that Sibelius has addressed this in what they call Magnetic Layout where this is done automatically. This is a nice feature.




I've seen Finale and Sibelius being discussed on other forums and it seems most people prefer what ever they first learned to use. Finale is not real easy - and I still have to use their help menu from time to time (their help menu is very good). Finale does put out a nice finished product.

[fsung]

Finale vs. Sibelius

I've been using Finale 2006 on and off since late 2006/early 2007 since that's what the music director at my church uses: "on and off" because I find it obtuse and, in many ways, counter-intuitive. (Part of that perception stems from cutting my computer-based notation teeth in the early 1990s using (the now-defunct) Passport Encore--which I maintain is still unmatched in either ease-of-use and bang-for-the-buck: to give you an example of the ease-of-use, the first project I tackled in Encore was "We Praise Thee O God" from Handel's Dettingen Te Deum, which I knocked out in about three hours, without having to crack open the manual or consult the help menu. Needless to say, that experience massively skewed my expectations of how a notation program "should" work. Unfortunately, the versions of Encore I have pre-date the PowerPC Macs and OS X, and the current version of Encore from GVox was re-written from the ground up, and bears little resemblance to it's predecessor.)

The biggest issue I have with Finale 2006, though, is the myriad of advertised but not-ready-for-prime-time and/or non-functional features, (e.g., attempting to import from or export to Music XML crashes the program; several of the MakeMusic-supplied scripts lock up the program and others simply don't work; optimizing staff systems occasionally overlaps the top staff of one group with the bottom staff of the group above it, etc.. While many, if not most, of those issues may have been addressed in more recent version, the reported raft of new bugs, unaddressed old bugs, and, to me worthless new features (bloatware) offer no incentive to upgrade.

I played around with the Sibelius 6 demo, largely based on Bryan Doughty's comment on TubeNet earlier this year on the relative merits of Sibelius. I did find it less non-intuitive than Finale (the magnetic layout feature is a huge time-saver and almost enough by itself to get me to shell out for Sibelius) and wasn't able to crash it or lock it up, no matter how hard I tried ), but it still requires more of an investment of time and effort to get beyond the "quick-and-dirty" stage than I'm willing or able to invest at this point.

Net:net, while I'm passingly familiar with Finale, I'm not invested in it to the point that it would take significantly more effort to unlearn it and learn Sibelius than it would to become proficient in Finale, so if I had to choose one or the other, at this point, I would go with Sibelius.

[prototypedenNIS]

Finale vs. Sibelius

It's always an issue of, I know this, I don't want to learn it another way. I learned Sibelius and honestly, I'd probably be more comfortable becoming fully lefthanded than learning Finale now.
Though, a separate USB keypad on the left side would make Sibelius 100% more physically comfortable.

[JChiang]

Finale vs. Sibelius

I have used both and I honestly much prefer Sibelius. IMO it takes longer to really learn Sibelius but it's definitely worth the more time to put into it. The house styles are far nicer on Sibelius and all the hotkeys are quite good and actually make sense unlike Finale where their hotkeys are kind of random.

And sibelius, the default play backs are far more superior to finale even without editing the playback. And in general, even without being taught how to use sibelius, it seems easier to find out how to do things without having to consult more experienced users to figure it out. Finale's mapping of tools to use are somewhat messy compared to sibelius.

I'd personally say take the more time to figure out sibelius because in the long run, you'll save more time and your charts will look prettier.

[bearphonium]

Finale vs. Sibelius

I have used Print Music with some success; have never tried Sibelius, although with a buddy of mine just starting a music minor, I hope she'll let me goof around on it. I think that overall, Finale lets you do a bit more in depth stuff, but it sure isn't real intuitive...

[Snorlax]

Finale vs. Sibelius

I have used Finale since 1990 and Sibelius since ver 5.

Finale is preferable to me. It has come a loooonnnnngggg way since ver 2, on which I started. It really no longer has the "steep learning curve" to which people often refer. If your needs are modest, then Print Music is OK.

I use Sibelius when clients so request, but my go-to software for my own projects is Finale.

Sibelius seems to have a desire to control a lot of factors regarding layout, spacing, etc. When I disagree with it, things are difficult for ME to undo. In Finale I can preset those factors readily.

I will admit that Sibelius looks slightly better out of the box with no tweaking, but I prefer Finale's flexibility over Sibelius's rigidity.

...and if you use VST instruments for playback, Finale is a hands-down winner if you want to control the sound and achieve playback as close to realistic as notation software will allow.

[davewerden]

Finale vs. Sibelius

Here is an update on my progress. First, I purchased Sibelius. I found a good price on the crossgrade (competitive upgrade). Second, it seemed clear from comments here and from my publisher, Cimarron Music, that Sibelius could be easier for me to use.

Typically, the only output needs I have for my software is to print parts for proofing and rehearsal. If I were concerned about making the music look perfect, or even my-way quirky, then I would still choose Finale. Sibelius seems better for getting pretty good results with no pain, but Finale offers a nearly infinite variety of tweaking options.

I agree with Snorlax, as far as my experience goes, at least, that Finale has superior sounds. However, the start-up "demo" sound on Sibelius is impressive so maybe there is more I could do.

My chief concern is this: I use the software sporadically, and sometimes it is a long stretch from my previous use. In Finale it's easy to forget some of the tools, shortcuts, conventions, etc. I really need something that will let me get my ideas "on paper" quickly without constantly opening the help file. My learning curve on Finale has never ended, even though I'm not trying any new tricks for scoring typography.

Sibelius seems easier to learn to that level and retain the knowledge. But since I've started lightly toying with it and reading the "getting started" type of manual included, I've become impressed with a few of its features.

In Finale, I tend to save versions as I go. I do a "Save As..." and give it a new name. Then, when I wish to format parts, I extract them and each part becomes a distinct file. This can result in a LOT of files in a directory. I recently finished several arrangements and sent them to Cimarron. One was a great little show-off piece for euphonium & piano called Trafalgar Hornpipe. Image my embarrassment when Cimarron sent me a proof PDF and I saw it was the wrong version... one that contained only about 2/3 of the final form I wanted. I sent him the wrong version. In Sibelius, you can save versions within the original file. Also the score and parts are in the same file. Parts can be individually formatted, but they are all part of the master file. That's a handy feature.

Finale has a cool feature that lets you tie the parts to the score. So even after extracting parts, you can edit the score and the changes cascade down to the parts. However, because Sibelius keeps everything together, that feature is automatic AND it is bidirectional. Typical of my experience with Finale, I could not get that feature to work. I'm sure it's fixable but I don't wish to spend my time troubleshooting my understanding of the program.

Those who know me know that I am a web programmer for my day job. We have a "source-control" application that keeps track of versions for us. That program has a built-in feature that lets us compare versions. I can look at version 1.5 compared to 1.4 and see the two version side-by-side, with differences pointed out via color changes. Red shows deleted code, orange shows changed code, and greed shows added coded. Sibelius has a feature remarkably similar. You see two versions alongside each other with color-coded changes shown clearly. Nice!

Both programs offer a music scanning feature. You can scan simple printed parts and have them turned into music files. Sibelius seems to be slightly more accurate at this and also lets you scan PDF parts directly.

My Finale version, probably due to something I messed up in a template somewhere, doesn't merge multi-measure rests together when extracting parts. I've tried the usual fixes suggested by more experienced users with no luck. Again, I'm sure that is solvable. I suspect that issues like this are caused in part by all the powerful options Finale offers. Those options are sufficient to produce remarkable results and to allow people like me to mess things up without even knowing it!

Finale has a cool feature where you can define a section of music as "mirror" of another section. If the original changes, so does the mirror. Sibelius has nothing quite like that. You can copy/paste easily, but changes to one don't affect the other. That's one I might actually use if Sibelius offered it. I have used it in Finale. It takes effort to figure it out each time (that phrase is becoming my Finale theme song), but it works and saves effort for people like me who are constantly tweaking phrases one way or the other.

Finale has indeed come a long way since I started using it about 20 years ago. It's much easier in many ways than before, and runs very efficiently. It can produce outstanding output if you take the time to configure and tweak. But if Sibelius proves as easy to use as I expect, it will be the winner for MY uses.

[JBrassLee]

Finale vs. Sibelius

I have Finale basic. It came with a Yamaha keyboard I think, and it was given to me. I tried using it but it was cumbersome. Is there anything I can really do with that without upgrading and spending a bunch of money? I would like to be able to compose a march someday.

[RickF]

Finale vs. Sibelius

I'm still using Finale 2001. Although it's pretty outdated, it works for what I want to do. Finale has a very good help menu built in where you can find almost anything you want to do.

If I ever upgrade, it will probably be to the Finale Allegro version as I don't think I need the 'full-blown' version.

[uieuph]

Finale vs. Sibelius

I use Finale 2005. It's seems quite suitable for composing and arranging. What I don't like is my inability to create a divisi with differing rhythmic structures, and I'm also not fond of the percussion feedback that I often get. I do find it quite easy to use though.

I did get some feedback between the 2 programs from a professional composer. He made a comment that many of the composers who use Sibelius are of the pretentious variety. It seemed like an odd comment but is plausible considering brand identification.

[RickF]

Finale vs. Sibelius

Originally posted by: uieuph

I use Finale 2005. It's seems quite suitable for composing and arranging. What I don't like is my inability to create a divisi with differing rhythmic structures, (snip)

David,

I can do divisi (with different rhythms) on my Finale 2001 version, so I'm pretty sure you should be able to too. You have to use a different layer. The icons are at the bottom left corner of the screen - (numbers 1,2,3,4) which offers up to 4 layers. The notes change color. Have you tried that? See this image:



...just click on number 2,3 or 4 (default is 1)

[uieuph]

Finale vs. Sibelius

RickF, you have been more cool than you likely realize. I could not find it with repeated searches in the help file in the time that I've had it. I'm going to check that out when I get home. Thank you.

[davewerden]

Finale vs. Sibelius

Sorry - I just realized I never circled back to this discussion. I have settled on Sibelius. I'll keep my Finale 2011 version around for easy access to my old files, but everything new is going to be on Sibelius. It's just much easier to get nicely-formatted sheet music out of it.

[prototypedenNIS]

Finale vs. Sibelius

Well, It looks like I'll finally update. Had a version of Sibelius 1.someonthing on my old compy. I want to get back into it.