3+1 Trivia?

[pmeuph]

3+1 Trivia?

In certain cases, if the 4th valve is not locked down, the horn will not fit well inside the case. I play on a 70's imperial with its original case, The previous owner of this horn had not been careful and had left the 4th valve up. This cause some damage with the alignment of the valve and actually bent the valve stem. It also cause the solder that is between the 4th valve and the large tubing going to the bell to break. ( I imagine that the horn must have been pushed in or forced in when trying to close the case to cause this amount of damage)... With a modern case this wouldn't have happened but with this wooden case it did...

Also an unrelated but funny incident when I brought the horn to a music store in town... I had the brass tech look at the 4th valve alignment and had him re-solder the broken solder. He did both tasks adequately but when I went to play test the horn it seemed horribly wrong I could not play a Bb.... I noticed that the 4th valve was locked in place so I though it was just momentarily stuck or sluggish, but it didn't move at all. Since I was still in the shop I turned to the tech and asked him if it was normal that my 4th valve didn't move anymore... He causally said " OH, I didn't think you used thing so I locked it down in, but don't worry I'll unstuck it for you free of charge" ... With retrospect I find this story funny...

[davewerden]

3+1 Trivia?

Ah, that last post made me think of another factor. If you send your horn under the airplane with baggage (in a hard case, we assume!), the TSA folks may take it out to inspect it. If there is no 4th valve lock, and if the horn therefore needs to be put carefully in the case,...

[fsung]

3+1 Trivia?

Originally posted by: bbocaner
Trumpets and flugels have all their valves sticking up with little to protect them.

Unlike euphoniums, a trumpet, flugel, or a cornet is rarely, if ever, carried or stored in such a manner that its weight can potentially rest on the valve stems.

My thinking is backed up by the fact that few of the 3+1 noncompensating instruments I've seen have a lock at all, perhaps because the "f mode" wouldn't work well at all without the compensating system? YEP-621? Willson 2700 series? Besson 765 does have one, right?

The 4th valve on the Yamaha 621 and its clones (Dillon, Kanstul, Jupiter, Accent, Eastman, etc.) passes between the outer branch and the 3rd valve plumbing. (The 4th valve on the Kalison comp euph also passes between the outer branch and the 3rd valve plumbing, but it also includes a 4th valve lock.) From a design standpoint, the outer branch and 3rd valve plumbing provide a buffer around the 4th valve and stem, in theory making them less vulnerable to damage from side impacts than they would be on comp horns on which the 4th valve passes behind the outer branch. Given the positioning of these models, however, I suspect that the lack of a 4th valve lock was driven as much, if not more, by a mandate to keep mfg costs as low as possible as it was by design considerations (and I would not be surprised if the mandate to trim mfg costs didn't drive the redesign of the 4th valve layout to begin with.)

The Willson 2719 3+1 non-comp has a 4th valve lock (as do the Besson 765/1065 and Nirschl I-700: all of which place the 4th valve behind the outer branch). The only other 4-valve euph in the 2700 series, the 2704, is a 4-top. The other 27xxs are 3 valve: 2703 is a 3 valve, non-comp; 2727 as 3-valve comp; and 2750 a 3-valve comp.

[bbocaner]

3+1 Trivia?

I'm having a hard time figuring out, other than the afforementioned soft gig bag scenario, how one would set down a euphonium such that the 4th valve stem bears any weight. The 4th valve casing, yes -- however one could make the argument that were any deformation of the 4th valve casing to happen from landing hard on the back you'd be better off with the valve in the up position!!

[jeffo]

3+1 Trivia?

Regarding the 4th valve lock converting the horn to an F instrument, I remember about 10-15 years ago, a number of brands (yamaha among them) referred to their horns as "Bb/F Euphoniums," so that seems to have been at least part of the intention.

[jeffo]

3+1 Trivia?

In fact, I just looked at the yep642 description at woodwind/brasswind and under "key" it says Bb/F (http://www.wwbw.com/Yamaha-YEP-642-S...-i1433746.wwbw)