Vibrations in my Besson Prestige

[JorgEuphonium]

Hi!

I have a problem with my Besson Prestige. I have noticed that certain notes (sometimes) create vibrations of metal in my euphonium. I noticed that the vibrations occur between the trigger arm and the coupling of the main slide.

Any solution?

Thanks!

Jorge

[bbocaner]

Vibrations in my Besson Prestige

Perhaps some heavy oil on that joint?

[davewerden]

Vibrations in my Besson Prestige

The good news is that you must be using enough air to get a good vibration going in your horn! The bad news is that it can be hard to track down a vibration sometimes.

I agree with bbocaner's suggestion. Even though I haven't experienced any problem like that in my own trigger, I still like to use a good synthetic oil on all the joints and pivots for the trigger mechanism. I used to do that for my trombone's trigger when I was playing trombone regularly. It makes it feel smoother, probably helps it last longer, and may stop the vibrations you are hearing.

Basically, anywhere metal moves against metal, you need some kind of lubrication.

[daruby]

Vibrations in my Besson Prestige

Some thoughts:

1. On the Besson Prestige, you have to insert the valves absolutely vertically after oiling so that the springs are centered on the rubber dampers on the bottom of the valve. Also do NOT "spin" the valves once they engage the spring since this can force them off center. If the 4th valve was pulled out for oiling and reinserted in the normal slanted position, the spring may be resting against the side of the cylinder and vibrating when you play. This would be near the location you are hearing.

2. You might be getting vibration from the portion of the trigger pushrod linkage between the snap on ball joint and screw on ball joint that connects to the trigger itself. This is a fairly loose fitting mechanism on the Bessons. I use Hetman #8 slide grease on the snap on ball joint and on the threads of pushrod adjusting collar. I use Hetman slide oil (#4?) on the tuning slide, the trigger pivots, and the screw in ball joint.

Doug

[catto09]

Vibrations in my Besson Prestige

I get this too. Definately the Trigger, but to be honest, as much as it can sometimes be annoying - rest assured that it's only you who can hear this! No-one in the audience will be able to hear it. Therefore, i don't see it as a huge problem. I found that I have to make sure things are screwed in properly. If anything is loose, then it'll start to rattle.

[fsung]

Vibrations in my Besson Prestige

By "vibration," do you mean an audible buzz? If so, I would surmise that the vibration/buzz is due to the play (looseness) between the trigger arm and the coupling, and that the notes that cause the vibration/buzz are inducing sympathetic resonance in the trigger arm.

Assuming your Prestige trigger has a snap-on connector (which, I think, is the case for all Buffett-Crampoin Prestiges), the tolerance between the parts is very close. Over time, I would expect the the wear and tear of snapping and unsnapping the connector to increase the tolerance, making the connection looser. At some point, there will be enough play between the parts to allow the end of the trigger arm to vibrate within the coupling, creating an audible buzz. Obviously, the more frequently you unsnap the trigger from the slide (to dump water, for example), the quicker the parts will wear.

One possible solution to the buzzing would be to slip a piece of heat-shrink tubing over the end of the trigger rod just past the mini-ball, so that when the coupling is snapped together the end of heat shrink tubing presses against the coupling housing. That may create enough of a cushion between the rod and the coupling housing to prevent metal-to-metal contact between the pieces from stray vibrations.

[DelVento]

Vibrations in my Besson Prestige

This also happends to my York horn.

Check both parts where the trigger attaches. On the top and bottom sections.

[BrandonJones]

Vibrations in my Besson Prestige

I know what you are speaking of. This is, in part, why the triggers on the Besson's work so effortlessly, which is great. Try the Ultra Pure light slide grease. You can get this from Just for Brass. If it is what I'm thinking of, it will go away instantly.

[JorgEuphonium]

Vibrations in my Besson Prestige

Thanks for your coments!

Originally posted by: catto09

I get this too. Definately the Trigger, but to be honest, as much as it can sometimes be annoying - rest assured that it's only you who can hear this! No-one in the audience will be able to hear it. Therefore, i don't see it as a huge problem. I found that I have to make sure things are screwed in properly. If anything is loose, then it'll start to rattle.

I know that the public is not audible but I was quite upset by this vibration, because it seems that you are not producing the sound correctly.

The vibration usually occurs when not using the trigger. Normally I get when I play the notes A and Bb (concert pitch).

Anyway today I greased the main slide and I screwed up a bit over the trigger arm, and seems to have disappeared, it might be that the reason that parts of the trigger arm was a bit loose. On the other hand it is curious that the more vibrations sprang up were the days when he took up the euphonium after several days have been untouched.

The mechanisms of action of the trigger I can lubricate with oil used to lubricate the valves? I use the oil, Webster's Eco Lube (which came with my Prestige, I used my old Yamaha 642 and it worked perfectly).

Thank you very much you all again!


Jorge

[bbocaner]

Vibrations in my Besson Prestige

I don't think webster's eco lube is thick enough to damp the rattling that's happening between these parts. Slide grease might work ok but it also might be too thick so as to slow down the action of the trigger?

I'd say that Hetman #14 or #15 would be ideal! In fact, read their description of #15:

(this is the real beauty of the Hetman line, they've got so many different weights of oil available that there is always something suited for every application!)

15. BALL JOINT - A heavy viscosity lubricant designed specifically for ball joints. This synthetic quiets noisy joints and assures a smooth action by functioning as both a lubricant and a vibration dampening agent. Although formulated for ball joints typically exhibiting looser tolerances, this lubricant has found wide use on pivot screws, worn linkage components, screw bell threads, valve stem threads, and valve cap threads. Will not harm plastic joints. PN: H15-BJ-22.

[RickF]

Vibrations in my Besson Prestige

I've never used Hetman's 15, but that sounds like it might work.

[Gary Duncan]

Hi. I recently (about 2 months ago) bought a new Besson Prestige euphonium.
I have noticed some buzzing on a few notes. The strange thing is that the notes which buzz have changed. To start with it was a concert D flat that was the worst. Now that note is fine but I hear it on the concert Bb and A in the middle range.
Sometimes its fine and there is no obvious buzz.
I have tried some thick grease on all the tuning slides and oil on the connections.
I feel that it might be to do with the valve springs but they appear to be sitting correctly etc so I'm not sure what I can do.
The buzzing notes are still varying,slowly.
Perhaps it will go away once I have played the instrument enough?

I'd welcome any further ideas.

Thanks,

Gary.

[iMav]

Hey Gary.

Have you thought to call Besson or the local reseller you purchased from (if you did buy from a local reseller…this is the added value they are supposed to bring to the table… working through issues just like this.)

[davewerden]

Basically, any two pieces can vibrate and make noise if the fit/lubrication/etc. is not correct.

It can help to have someone tough various points on the horn to see if trigger linkage, lyre screws, 4th-valve lock, or other visible parts are causing it. A lyre screw can just be tightened. Moving parts can usually be lubed to stop the noise.

Make sure all 8 of the top/bottom valve caps are tight (but don't over tighten them).

Springs can be an issue if they are not parallel to the walls of the casing. Take them all out, tape the pistons in place if they need to be up, and then play your problems notes. If the buzz is gone, then stand all the springs up on a hard surface to see if they stand straight. If so, turn each one over to check the other ends. If they are not straight, get a new set of Mead springs.

Sometimes the bell rim bead wire can vibrate. Some models solder them in place; others leave them held by the bead wrap only. A really good tech can tighten the bead if it is not soldered. If it is soldered, but still causing noise, the solder may not have made it to all parts of the wire. I don't know if Besson solders theirs - does anyone know? (Adams solders the bead on sterling silver bells now and have always soldered the E2 beads. Shires 2 models in the Q series are the same, with one soldered and one not.)

[NLeuph]

Hi Gary, I think Dave's advice is on point. One thing I can think of: Do you always get this buzz in the same room? Or is it always present, no matter where you are playing? I find that when I practice at home I get several buzzing noises, that can appear to come from the bell of the instrument, but actually aren't.