New (to me, at least) Horn

[CKH]

Hey guys,

I took the plunge and bought a used Willson 2900. Today was the first chance I got to play it. It sounds great in all registers and responds well in both the upper and lower register. It looks great as well. There's only one issue: pitch.

It was through the roof when a pracitced in my room (80 to 81 degrees). I took it down to my basement, where it's 72 to 73 degrees, and it played better. The main tuning slide still had to be out an inch, though. Is that too much? I know lots of euphonium players who have their main slide almost all the way in, and I've never really been part of that category. On the 642, I didn't have to adjust as much. Is it a horn issue, or does it just take time to adjust?

Also, could the horn need time to be broken in? It's 14 years old, but hasn't been played for the last 10. I know that it was cleaned recently, but that's about it, as far as my knowledge goes of that.

I play a BB1 regularly, but because I don't have any Euro shank ones, I used the one that came with the horn. It says "51D", but isn't at all like a Schilke. The cup was fairly shallow, and the backbore was much thinner. It's a couple millimeters shorter than the BB1 and the rim size is the same.
Any opinions as far as pitch goes?

Sorry for the essay, I don't want to send back a horn I shouldn't (or vice-versa).

Thanks,

Christian

[kevinlau45]

New (to me, at least) Horn

Well every horn is different and it's going to take some time for you to learn how to deal with this horn's intonation. I'm not surprised that you didn't have to adjust much on the 642 seeing as how Yamahas generally have the best intonation of professional euphoniums today. You could try getting the medium shank BB1 seeing as how that's the mouthpiece you're used to playing on, not to mention Brian Bowman had a hand in designing it and he plays on the 2900 as well.

[RickF]

New (to me, at least) Horn

Hi Christian,

I don't think your tuning issues with the horn are just caused by temperature. We all deal with higher temps from time to time and usually can adjust 5 to 8 cents to bring the pitch down. It seems to me I read somewhere that Willson (2900) comes with two different main tuning slides... one of which that has a shorter loop to make it sharper to start with. Maybe you have one of those.

Hope this helps.

[cochranme]

New (to me, at least) Horn

Hey Christian,

The issue is probably how you blow. When I bough my Sterling after years of playing a Hirsbrunner, I had so many problems in the first month with pitch that I contacted Paul Riggett and Dave about it. They both recommended that I give it some more time to get used to how the horn blows and responds, and after an extra month of learning what the horn responds best to, I was able to easily control and slot the pitch, and now it's second nature. Each horn is different, and the Willson definitely has a unique personality. I would give it a little more time and work on simple things like lip slurs, crescendos and decrescendos, simple melodies, etc. Find out what type of air the horn responds best to. What I found when I made a switch is that what works on one horn may actually make the sound worse on another horn. I found the Sterling does a LOT more work for me, I just had to back off a bit. I played a 2900 for a long time, and in general, my experience was that the 2900 did not respond well to uncontrolled, aggressive air. Yes, you may have to change the way you blow, but it may make you a better player and give you an even more resonant sound in the end. If this is your first experience with a large bore, compensating horn, then it will take some time to get used to. Good luck, and congrats on the new horn!

[Eupher6]

New (to me, at least) Horn

Fully agree with Martin.

I moved over to the Sterling from Besson Sovs, which I'd played for decades, about a year ago. I found I had to adjust my thinking and my approach to the Sterling, which meant to simply back off and stop fighting the horn as much (which, oddly enough, was the impetus for me to buy the Sterling to begin with!).

I'll never be a Sterling performing artist, but my experience runs close to that expressed by Martin. Give it time, back off, and relax. Tension is a killer.

[davewerden]

New (to me, at least) Horn

The concept of "not fighting the horn" sounds simple and logical, but it is surprisingly easy to ignore. However, once you figure it out it will make you life muuuuuuch better.

During college I spent a summer working on a construction crew. We were building a new insurance building, which had terrazzo floors (kind of like marble). I was assigned to run one of these floor polishers one day:





The disc turned rapidly and generated a lot of friction. Looking at the photo, imagine the disc rotating clockwise as you look down on it. That means the front edge will move from left to right and the rear will move from right to left. If you balance the disc so the pressure is even front-to-back, it stands still. If you want to move it to the left, just lean it forward slightly and let the friction that is already there move the heavy thing for you. If you get into the rhythm you can polish back and forth easily.

I quickly learned that the secret after trial and error (OK, and a little chasing it around). As I was gracefully gliding it back and forth, another construction worker passed by. He was small but quite strong and tough (he had just bragged to me about a bar fight he was in the night before, including showing my where he lost a couple teeth). He said that machine looked cool and asked if he could try it. Of course I let him. After fighting it for about 20 seconds he gave it back to me. As he left he said, "Man, you must be stronger than you look!"

So let the machine (the horn) do what it can do for you.

[Eupher6]

New (to me, at least) Horn

Originally posted by: davewerden The concept of "not fighting the horn" sounds simple and logical, but it is surprisingly easy to ignore. However, once you figure it out it will make you life muuuuuuch better.

During college I spent a summer working on a construction crew. We were building a new insurance building, which had terrazzo floors (kind of like marble). I was assigned to run one of these floor polishers one day:





The disc turned rapidly and generated a lot of friction. Looking at the photo, imagine the disc rotating clockwise as you look down on it. That means the front edge will move from left to right and the rear will move from right to left. If you balance the disc so the pressure is even front-to-back, it stands still. If you want to move it to the left, just lean it forward slightly and let the friction that is already there move the heavy thing for you. If you get into the rhythm you can polish back and forth easily.

I quickly learned that the secret after trial and error (OK, and a little chasing it around). As I was gracefully gliding it back and forth, another construction worker passed by. He was small but quite strong and tough (he had just bragged to me about a bar fight he was in the night before, including showing my where he lost a couple teeth). He said that machine looked cool and asked if he could try it. Of course I let him. After fighting it for about 20 seconds he gave it back to me. As he left he said, "Man, you must be stronger than you look!"

So let the machine (the horn) do what it can do for you.

Dave, I'm laughing as I'm writing this because of your illustration.

Those of us who didn't work hard enough at the music thing and found ourselves wearing a uniform AND performing music became intimately familiar with these buffers.

No license needed to drive these things! Just some Johnson's paste wax and an old Army blanket to get the swirls in the floor out!

[RickF]

New (to me, at least) Horn

Dave, I'm laughing as I'm writing this because of your illustration. Those of us who didn't work hard enough at the music thing and found ourselves wearing a uniform AND performing music became intimately familiar with these buffers. No license needed to drive these things! Just some Johnson's paste wax and an old Army blanket to get the swirls in the floor out!

Yep, I remember using these when in the Air Force Drum and Bugle corps at Keesler AFB. The corps was real fussy on having a real shiny floor. Some of the guys (after using Johnson paste wax) did another polish job with clear boot polish... and the buffer along with Army blanket. All I've got to say is after first trying this, I realized why they put in rubber base boards in the barracks.

[CKH]

New (to me, at least) Horn

Thanks again to all who answered.

I'm looking in to the comment that Rick had about the longer tuning slides. Does anyone know any way to spot either? I'm okay with ordering one, but I'd rather not if I could avoid it.

At the end of the day, I don't mind ordering another slide, and I'm fine with changing my approach to the instrument. The only thing that I'm afraid of is that there might be something wrong with the horn that may cause it to play that way. In its defense, F in the staff is a pretty simple ballgame when it comes to tuning.

On another note, at the bottom of all of the slides, there's a ring of silver (like the finish of the horn). There's a little line where the silver and the actual slide material meet, but the silver part is still part of the tuning slide itself. Does anyone have any idea about this? I contacted the Willson Company, and they didn't do it, and the seller isn't familiar with it either. Anyone heard of this?

Christian

[davewerden]

New (to me, at least) Horn

Originally posted by: CKHOn another note, at the bottom of all of the slides, there's a ring of silver (like the finish of the horn). There's a little line where the silver and the actual slide material meet, but the silver part is still part of the tuning slide itself. Does anyone have any idea about this? I contacted the Willson Company, and they didn't do it, and the seller isn't familiar with it either. Anyone heard of this? Christian

That doesn't sound familiar. Could you get a photo and post it?

[Gallenod]

New (to me, at least) Horn

Christian,

If your Willson is like mine, that gap in the tuning slide is an indentation meant to help keep the slides from getting stuck in place if you push them all the way in for some reason.

As to the intonation issues, many brass musicians's intonation practices are trained by their instruments instead of the other way around. (We don't spend nearly enough time on ear training in middle and high school, which is where most of the damage is done.) Spend some time with a tuner playing through things and stopping periodically on particular notes and see where you are.

Think of it as buying a new car. For a while, the radio knob, light controls, and the wiper stem all feel like they're in the wrong place. That's muscle memory that we have to retrain. Some new cars are similar to our old ones and we develop new reflexes the longer we drive them. Then there are cars like I drove in England, where not only are the controls in slightly different places, but the steering wheel is on the other side of the car.

I switched to a Willson 17 years ago from a Besson I'd been playing for 17 years. But even two instruments from the same company can play differently.

Stick with it. We all sort it out eventually.

Dale

PS: Floor buffers? You had floor buffers? I remember spending a Saturday in a MOB dorm with nothing but a razor blade and a dustpan, scraping up the wax compacted by previous floor buffers. I'd have loved to have had a floor buffer!