Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 22

Thread: Water Catchers

  1. Water Catchers

    I don't know, this sounds a lot like the when a couple months ago on the trombone forum, someone suggested that the rubber bumper on the end of the slide makes the 10th partial unstable or trumpet players flipping a tuning slide to achieve better response from having the waterkey upside down.

  2. #12

    Water Catchers

    air can move through the bell, and the open "nipples" of the horn.
    That sounds pretty silly, as the air going through the instrument shouldn't be leaking out of the bottom of the pistons, but even if it was a bit leaky, the water catcher isn't a sealed or even tuned tube, so it shouldn't have any effect there either.

    They don't weigh much so I don't see it changing the vibrational modes of the instrument in the same way that a heavy valve cap might.

    They do go on somewhat tightly, so I suppose it's possible that it could change the rigidity of the whole valve cluster and modify the vibrational modes that way, but the valve cluster is already a very heavily braced area, I don't see it making a very big difference!

    I'm not doubting the effect you observed, but it's pretty hard to find a credible reason to explain this phenomenon!

    --
    Barry

  3. #13

    Water Catchers

    dampening vibration
    This bastardization of "damping" is so commonly used that it's even listed in some dictionaries as being acceptable, but it seems especially funny in this context since we are talking about water catchers.

    --
    Barry

  4. #14

    Water Catchers

    I've played euphoniums with and without grime gutters for a lot of decades and while I can't really tell the difference between a flea fart and a fly fart anymore due to hearing loss, I never noticed a discernible difference in sound qualities.

    I'd much rather have clothing that wasn't oil-stained and wet than worry about whatever phenomenon your friend seems to have found with a grime gutter attached to the horn.



    U.S. Army, Retired (built mid-1950s)
    Adams E2 Euph (built 2017)
    Boosey & Co. Imperial Euph (built 1941)
    Edwards B454 Bass Trombone (built 2012)
    Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb tuba (built 1958)
    Kanstul 33-T lBBb tuba (built 2010)

  5. #15

    Water Catchers

    Originally posted by: euphos456 I see what you mean, John. For me, it wasn't the catcher, it was the pad inside. The pad made the valves sticky and noisy, and the sound rather stuffy. What I did was replace the pad with an old kitchen sponge, cut into .5 cm thick strips. The strips are thick to absorb moisture effectively, but thin enough to allow air to move through the valves. Hope this helps. Also, how is your professor's new Willson? I have heard its a mix of the 2900 and 2950.



    Phillip


    I like the idea of the sliced kitchen sponge. Good job, Phillip.

    U.S. Army, Retired (built mid-1950s)
    Adams E2 Euph (built 2017)
    Boosey & Co. Imperial Euph (built 1941)
    Edwards B454 Bass Trombone (built 2012)
    Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb tuba (built 1958)
    Kanstul 33-T lBBb tuba (built 2010)

  6. Water Catchers

    I constucted a gutter out of some old cpvc and rubber stoppers a week ago. I thought it was just me, but I felt as if there was a very slight damping with the horn. Maybe the rubber and polymer amplified this effect.


  7. #17

    Water Catchers

    Originally posted by: majorchubbs I constucted a gutter out of some old cpvc and rubber stoppers a week ago. I thought it was just me, but I felt as if there was a very slight damping with the horn. Maybe the rubber and polymer amplified this effect.
    But then you have to consider how playing in wet pants will affect you mentally, which will also affect your tone

    Actually, I would think the effect on the sound output would be really, really, really small. Anything you do to the horn can dampen vibrations. I suppose even one of those clip-on pencil holders would have some effect. In a conversation with the folks at Adams last year they told me they do not use a 4th valve lock because they don't want the damping effect of having it fastened to the tubing, so certainly all this stuff factors in.

    The ones I have made for myself have a slot that is longer than the end-to-end distance of the 3 nipples on the valves. In other words, I can move it sideways by a quarter inch or so. If yours was a tight fit that way, it might have more damping effect.

    I would just advise you to do a reality check because some factors affect our opinion of sound without necessarily affecting sound. When I put new felts on my horn it makes the valves quieter, and that almost makes it seem like the horn's tone is different; but of course the tone is not affected. In the case of the water trap, there could be a subtle effect on tubing vibration, which can affect tone. So with the trap, you have to determine if it is the sound of the valves movement that makes you think the horn sounds different, or if the tone coming out the bell is actually different.

    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  8. Water Catchers

    After reading your post, I played my horn and I think it is a slight damping in the valve chatter. It didn't feel like tone damping.



    I like the point you made about all of the"extra" stuff having damping effect on the horn. Felts, latches, braces, gaurds and even spit valves must impact the horn in some way or another.


  9. #19

    Water Catchers

    This is a really interesting (and complex) subject. We know that certain things have effects such as bracing, leadpipe attachment, and heavy caps, but not exactly why. I've attached a link to a paper describing damping effects on trumpet bells and tubes. Keeping in mind that a trumpet is a different beast than a euphonium, being smaller and cylindrical, the author makes some interesting points. It's not necessary to wade through all the math to get to his main points.

    "Influence of wall vibrations on the sound of brass instruments"
    Carroll Arbogast
    Piano Technician
    CMA Piano Care

  10. #20

    Water Catchers

    I quit using them a year or two ago, when it seemed to me, subjectively, that a water catcher was making the instrument less resonant by reducing some overtones. Not using one makes the sound richer for me as a player, which is reason enough.

    Spurious resonances in the valve area can sound like they are coming from the bell. Recently the bottom third valve cap came a little loose and was really resonating, yet it sounded like the bell itself was ringing funny. For a few minutes it was driving me crazy. There was no way one could hear a source location, other than it seemed to be the bell itself -- and I could even dampen the sound by holding the bell at a certain point. But it cleared up after I decided to make sure everything was tight and found the loose valve cap. So i do believe that a water catcher on the valves could well change the sound of the instrument.

    John

    (I play in a tuba/euph quartet, a 15 piece brass ensemble, and an auditioned wind ensemble. From time to time I sub in our local brass band when one of the young guns can't play. And I've begun working on my 5th recital)

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •