WWI Conn U.S.N. 4 valve + '26 Pan American Monster!***PICS

[usnconn]

Hey, just picked up a 1918 Conn U.S.N. 4 valve silver tuba. Dating from 1918 it has to be a WWI. All the buttons move freely and pop right back up, the guy i bought it from used to play it and said the valves have been serviced. It has some dings but that is expected seeing how its almost 100 years old! Also from the same guy, i bought a Pan-American 1926 Monster 3 valve with the original mouthpiece! Does anyone know what either of these are worth? I'm seeing vintage tubas going for a pretty penny depending on condition and brand but i would expect this 1918 Conn to be worth more considering the supporting factors/details. If anyone has any info or knows what they could be worth i would appreciate it, also i know these tubas often go into private collections and aren't often sold for cheap... that is why im having so much trouble finding info on the USN one... Looking forward to hearing what any of you guys think! Thanks.

[pmeuph]

First of all, it is really hard to evaluate the price of a tuba without any pictures.

Secondly, you might also want to post this on Tubenet ( chisham.com) as there are more of these types of instruments that so up there.

Lastly, the demand for tubas has been halted in the past couple of numbers for a number of reasons (Import instruments + overall slowing down of the economy) so it might be a bit difficult to sell these quickly.

[usnconn]

Sorry about that, i tried uploading the pictures the first time but it took a few tries...

[pmeuph]

Well, They both look to be in great shape ( not too many dents). The pan american definitely needs a lot of scrubbing and polishing.

heres a link to similar pan american tuba for sale
http://forums.chisham.com/view...pan+american+#p321026

Also, How do they play ? How are the slides?

[usnconn]

Thanks for link! They both play good, slides work freely and pop right back up. Amazing sound! Also, someone told me that cleaning them might hurt the value?

[pmeuph]

Cleaning you valves and your horn, if done properly, will not hurt it at all. The is a whole section on maintenance in the menu on the left.

I will you you a pretty straightforward opinion, which could be contradicted by someone else. Since these horns are not that important as collectors items ( they have not belonged to important tuba player are probably not the only model ever made) If you decide to sell them they will be judged for their playing capacities as people would buy tubas do so to play on them. I think this would be the case for the Pan American. Tubas are rarely collectors items to be displayed. The ones that end up in museums and such are usually of real historical significance and are usually donated to the museum.

If I were you, I would find a good brass technician in your area and bring in the horns to see what there are worth and what he recommends. It is really hard to evaluate a horn on a forum without having played it.

Here is more info about conn instrumentsI didn't find anything about your horn)
http://www.xs4all.nl/~cderksen/index.html

[usnconn]

i will disagree, these things are amazing pieces of history and are definately collectors items. Also i dont know if you are aware of how much vintage tubas are selling on ebay, but they are not cheap. Even with broken keys and missing valves they sometimes bring $200-$300. My friend does play and he loves playing them.. says they still work fine. The keys pop right back up. Also i did not come on here to simply cash in on them, i have a lot of respect for musical instruments of all shapes and sizes and just wanted to learn more about them and POSSIBLY find out how much they could be worth. Both the tubas together were said to be worth $1000 when appriased over 25 years ago.

Also the original owner of them played in Chicago during the "big band" era. They have seen a lot of gigs in their day i am sure. Still in overall great shape for their age.

[pmeuph]

I guess the main reason for our "disagreement" is the difference we have between a collectors item and pretty penny. I will define what I think and I hope you will find it coherent with my arguments.
For me, the idea of a collectors item is one that goes into a collection that is to be kept and maintained and displayed ( ie. a museum of some sort) I didn't say these horns weren't collectors items I said they weren't "that" important. BUT... if you have the name of the original player who played them during the "big band" era ( ie. was he somebody important , did these horns play with important players, are there famous photographs of these horns etc)

I don't think these horns would be displayed in a museum or a collection, I think that if these horns where sold they would be used as regular playing horns.

By pretty penny, I was implying amounts that surpass the 10k mark. As a comparison, Arthur Pryor's trombone was on sale for 250 000$ several years ago ( I feel this is exaggerated but I will nonetheless acknowledge that the horn is of great value)

The 1000$ estimate is a bit low by todays standard but the price hasn't gone up more than three-fold. The problem lies with many other issues(declining economy, availability of many vintage horns on ebay and classifieds, chinese import horns selling horns to amateur players) etc... (supply for tubas has decreased in the past years because of the economy)

Also, some horns are bought to be rebuilt ( that is why people by horns of ebay for 200$ with parts missing) I think that repairing the original will not hurt the value if down by a professional. I would suggest you look at Dan Oberloh's website and check some of the work he has done before

http://www.oberloh.com/gallery/gallery.htm

Lastly, By valves working great, I was not meaning if they come up quickly, but more how is the compression( how tight are they and is there are that can leak between the cylinder and the valve)(its a bit like a car, if the is a bit of leakage you start loosing effectiveness, this is common in horns more than 50 yrs old)

Here is the general price list I have in mid with tubas

10k-20k- Brand New top of the line custom instruments( usually 6/4 CC tubas)
5-10k- Brand new pro CC tubas, Brand New F tubas
4-6K Brand new pro BBb and pro EEb Tubas
2-3K Chinese copies of all above horns
1-3K Used BBb 4 valve horns
1-2K used EEb 4 valve
500-1000 Used EEb 3 valve
500-1000 Used BBb Horns

This list is in no way complete or right, prices vary a lot. Also the prices quoted are based on quality horns in good playing condition sold by conscientious sellers would are not in any sort of financial hassle.I think the prices listed on the following site reflect what my prices are saying. Obviously there are always people paying more or less for horns. If ever you do consider selling them, don't sell them on eBay. Prices on eBay are a bit under market value. Chisham.com is pretty much the center for used tubas.
http://thevillagetinker.com/horns_for_sale.htm