Was this model made in England and Germany? If so, is one more desired than the other? (And does one usually cost more?)
Edited to add.... If one costs more, is it worth the extra money??
Thanks
Was this model made in England and Germany? If so, is one more desired than the other? (And does one usually cost more?)
Edited to add.... If one costs more, is it worth the extra money??
Thanks
Please clarify. Are you talking about a new Besson Sovereign or a used one? The current generation of Bessons are made in Germany. Besson instruments prior to 2006ish would have been manufactured in England. Generally new instruments will cost more than used ones. Which is more desired? That is a matter of personal preference. I think quality control and consistency is much better with the German made Bessons. There is some sound variance between the older England made models and the new German made horns. I think the German made horns have a slightly "lighter" sound compared to the English made instruments.
Sorry...
To clarify I am talking about a used horn. I have seen both, and some people state that their horn is more desired because of a certain type of stamp/engraving. Just wasn't sure if that was true, or just someone trying to talk up their horn.
Hello!
I bought a Besson Prestige in December 2008, and the truth that the new Besson made in Germany are a little easier to sound than before.
Good luck on your choice!
Jorge Estruch: Euphonium, trombone & tuba teacher/Euphonium player
Euph: Besson Prestige 2052-2
Mpc: Denis Wick 4AL
Twitter: @jorgeuphonium
Instagram: @jorge_estruch
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/JorgEuphonium
Some years of manufacturer are known to be better than others in general. That doesn't mean that a horn built during the "bad" years might not still be a great horn - it's just a matter of the odds.
If you post the year it was made or the serial number or other identifying characteristics, I'm sure we have folks on the forum who would tell you the trends at least.
Dave Werden (ASCAP)
Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
Adams Artist (Adams E3)
Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
YouTube: dwerden
Facebook: davewerden
Twitter: davewerden
Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium
Yes.Originally posted by: Texican
Was this model made in England and Germany?
The 967 Sovereign was introduced in 1973. Prior to 2001, they were made in England. From 2001-2004, they were assembled in England from parts manufactured under contract, primarily in Germany. In 2004, the new owner, The Music Group outsourced production to Schreiber-Keilworth, in Markneukirchen, Germany, where it remained until mid-2006, when Besson went into bankruptcy . Sovereigns mfg'd since the acquisition of the Besson brand and trademarks by Buffet Crampon in late 2006 are mfg'd in Germany.
By whom?If so, is one more desired than the other?
People who have played '70s to mid-'80s Sovereigns extensively generally think the sound of instruments of that vintage is richer than that of the more recent Sovereigns, but that responsiveness and intonation are not as good.
People who are willing to sacrifice a little in terms of responsiveness and intonation for the "classic" Besson sound generally prefer '70s-mid '80s Sovereigns; people who are willing to sacrifice a little in terms of sound for easier response and better intonation generally prefer more recent examples.
In general, newer Sovereigns cost more than vintage Sovs by virtue of being newer (less wear, generally better mechanical and cosmetic condition).(And does one usually cost more?)
Is a used 3G iPod worth the extra money compared to a used 2G iPod?If one costs more, is it worth the extra money??
If you prefer the "classic" Besson sound and can put up with the intonation issues of vintage 967s, then the price premium of a '90s-20xx isn't worth it; if you prefer the better intonation and generally easier response of recent Sovs, it is.
The two possibilities aren't mutually exclusive.some people state that their horn is more desired because of a certain type of stamp/engraving. Just wasn't sure if that was true, or just someone trying to talk up their horn.
A not insignificant number of folks believe "Globe," aka "Round" stamped Sovs, which were made from heavier gauge--and possibily better quality--brass than later Sovs, have a richer sound than their more recent counterparts. For that reason, they are more desirable to some players.
Therefore, it is possible that a Globe/Round Stamp Sov IS more desirable in some circles, AND that a seller is trying to talk his or hers up to boost the sale price.
i know this can be a subjective question, but generally, which is more desired and/or more valuable? a recent (within 10 years) Sovereign 968 made in Germany, or a Globe Stamp Sovereign made around 1985?
(if both are in the same cosmetic condition)
Christopher Chen
bolded are for sale
B&H 967 - Globe Stamp
B&H 960 (3 valve comp euph) - Globe Stamp
Salvation Army Triumphonic Eb Alto, silver plated
On the lookout for:
Silver plated:
pre '93, post '06 Sovereign Alto/Tenor Horn
pre '93, post '06 Sovereign Baritone (3 valve)
York/Sterling/LMI variants accepted
You hit the nail on the head with the word SUBJECTIVE when it comes to Bessons. One could probably apply this to just about any mid level to pro horn.
I've been on a euphonium-quest for a few months. I've come to the conclusion, I need to just keep trying different horns until I find one that fits my budget and my chops. I tried an older Yamaha 641 last night and it was one of the best horns I've ever played. Unfortunately, it was not for sale!
Good luck with trying to figure out the whole serial #, age, and whether or not its a "good year".
Euphs:
Miraphone 5050 Ambassador
Wessex Travel (Tornister) Euphonium 'Maly' ER154
Yamaha 201 Baritone
Mp: Wick SM4 Ultra X
Groups:
The San Diego Concert Band
Both are good horns. Your pick between a thicker build with a bit better tone or a lighter build with better tuning.