Is Sterling a manufacturer or an assembler?

[euphdude]

The message title says it all. I'm in love with my new Sterling Virtuoso, and I recently found a review article which seemed to imply that Sterling falls into the assembler category, versus a full blown manufacturer. Supposedly their bells are made by Taylor and their valves are a "Bauer Fein valve block" (whatever that is supposed to mean). Does Sterling outsource most of the manufacturing, or do they do much of the rest in house? I don't think it matters either way, but I was curious. In the trombone world, Gary Greenhoe has established a great niche for his company in taking outsourced Conn and Bach trombone parts, and taking the time to assemble them correctly with very high precision. I'm wondering if Sterling fits this category.

[davewerden]

Is Sterling a manufacturer or an assembler?

I would still call them a manufacturer, but I'm not sure if there are hard/fast rules about such terms. If manufacturer means they have to make every piece of the instrument from scratch, then to qualify you would either have to be very large or charge a whole lot of money for each horn.

The valve block is German made. Frankly, Germans really engineer things well. Sterling tried for years to manufacturer their own in house - I even watched a set of valves being made once at Sterling. But they never matched the results of the German valves he is using now, so why not switch? Getting this type of process to work consistently would take a lot of time away from looking at some of the other improvements Paul has made, and the best likely result is that he would spend of lot of time/money to end up making valves as well as the Germans.

Bells are a different matter, but related. I talked to the President of Mirafone about bells, and he said it takes about a decade to produce a craftsman capable of doing this well. Harder than one might think! But that's only part of the issue. A manufacturer who specializes in this type of product can buy brass tubes and sheet in larger volume and can get a better selection. Sometimes the particular raw piece you desire is only available in very large quantities, which might take Sterling many years to use up. And by then, customer demand or design changes might lead Paul to want a different material/spec.

I know Paul makes a lot of the pieces himself, but I don't know the proportions. The bottom line is that he puts out a superior product and has done remarkable things to improve the breed. Sometimes that kind of improvement comes faster at a small company when they aren't spending half their development time working out a touch more this/that with a valve group. There are also unique limits for a small company, of course, but so far Paul is balancing things very well.

[davewerden]

Is Sterling a manufacturer or an assembler?

On a little different track, I once owned a Volvo. It used a Borg-Warner transmission, as did many other European manufacturers. It also used Bosch fuel injection, as did many other manufacturers. Did that mean that in 1970 Volvo was an assembler instead of a manufacturer? You could certainly argue that. But what I wanted from a car at the time was safety. At a time when many other makes were playing catch-up on safety, this car had an effective roll cage, a progressive crumple zone in front, break-away engine mounts that would push the engine down (instead of straight back) in a front-end crash, a split hydraulic braking system that would let 3 wheels have brakes if either line failed (with a separate mechanical parking brake system if things got really bad!), front disc brakes (before they were widely used), 3-point shoulder belts, etc. Most of the competition did not compare. So I didn't care if Volvo was a manufacturer or a clever assembler who manufactured many of their own parts. They had what I wanted then.

[euphdude]

Is Sterling a manufacturer or an assembler?

I know Paul makes a lot of the pieces himself, but I don't know the proportions. The bottom line is that he puts out a superior product and has done remarkable things to improve the breed.

No argument here, believe me! I was just curious about the degree of outsourcing.

The valve block is German made. Frankly, Germans really engineer things well. Sterling tried for years to manufacturer their own in house - I even watched a set of valves being made once at Sterling. But they never matched the results of the German valves he is using now, so why not switch?

I also hear you about the German made valves. Prior to my Sterling's arrival, I had never tried anything to match that of the German Bessons, but these valves are just about there, and they aren't even fully broken in yet!

[fsung]

Is Sterling a manufacturer or an assembler?

Originally posted by: euphdude No argument here, believe me! I was just curious about the degree of outsourcing.

FWIW, I have read on other forums that York and Besson outsource their valves from Bauer-Fein as well, but have not been able to get either mfg to confirm or deny that claim (no surprise there). It would be interesting to compare the valves on a current model Courtois euph against those on a Besson.)

Whether or not those claims are correct, it would not surprise me if one or both outsource their valve blocks or other parts, since quality control over the assembly is at least as important to the quality of the finished product as the quality of the individual parts.

[JTJ]

Is Sterling a manufacturer or an assembler?

I have this fuzzy memory of reading that Yamaha is the only euphonium manufacturer to make everything in house. If so, everyone else is an assembler to some degree.

John

[RickF]

Is Sterling a manufacturer or an assembler?

FWIW... Yamaha's new bell for a 642 lists for $770.

[bbocaner]

Is Sterling a manufacturer or an assembler?

The name of the company that makes the valves is actually Bauerfeind -- one word and with a d at the end. Willson used to get all their valves from them too, before they started making them in-house.

I've toured A LOT of brass instrument factories because it's something I enjoy doing and I can tell you that very few of them make everything in-house. Actually, I've only ever seen two factories where everything is made start-to-finish in-house: kanstul and shires. bells, braces, machining of small parts like lyre holders, spit valves, valves, branches -- they are often purchased from outside suppliers.

Bach trumpets may be all done in-house, or at least they were pre-strike -- but most of the bach trombones sold use hagmann or thayer valves made by outside suppliers.

Meinl Weston in geretsreid germany doesn't make bells or valves. The bells come from jamusik in markneukirchen -- I'm not sure where they get their valves. Alexander, the famous horn and tuba maker, gets bells from ewald meinl (who also makes bells for thein, latsch, and many more) and valves from meinl schmidt. willson provides valves to a number of other manufacturers. Jurgen Voight makes valves and a lot of other little small parts like braces and spit valves for a lot of other manufacturers.

I've toured some car plants too, and as Dave suggested NO car manufacturer makes the entire car. At BMW in germany they make the steel and aluminum chassis/body, they make engines, and they make seats. absolutely everything else comes from suppliers who in some cases will even collaborate on the design of the part.

While the bell and the valves are probably the most important and major components of any brass instrument, if a manufacturer is doing any transformation from raw material into finished product -- sheet brass into branches, or drawing or bending tubing, I think they deserve to be called a manufacturer.