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Thread: Boosey and Hawkes vs. Buffet Crampon

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Rosenberg, TX (soon to be Philadelphia, PA)
    Posts
    68

    Boosey and Hawkes vs. Buffet Crampon

    I hear that the Buffet Crampon Euphoniums are better than the former Boosey and Hawkes, but I've also heard that the other way around. I'd like to know real differences, improvements, and set backs with the change. I'd like to know considering that if the Boosey and Hawkes are about the same/better I'd go ahead and buy one of those (they also happen to be more easily available). On the other hand, if the Buffet Crampon blows BH out of the water then I'd just wait a while longer and buy the superior instrument. (looking to buy a sovereign)

    Euphonium player with the Houston Brass Band
    Willson 2950
    Gidding & Webster EXL

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Dumfries, VA (Potomac Shores)
    Posts
    316

    Boosey and Hawkes vs. Buffet Crampon

    I can tell you first hand that the newer "German" batches of ALL of the Besson products are FAR AND AWAY superior to the predecessors. My recommendation is that you give them a shot. Valve quality is far superior not only to the old B&H's, but to any other euphonium on the market, IMHO. Intonation is improved as well as response. Overall, they're just plain better!!!
    Brandon Jones
    Principal Euphonium - The United States Air Force Band, Washington, D.C.
    bmjones82@gmail.com

  3. #3

    Boosey and Hawkes vs. Buffet Crampon

    I agree with Brandon on all the specifics he mentioned. However, some people feel that some of the warm, British sound was lost in the new horns. I believe there is a difference in the weight of the brass they now use, which takes away some of the depth.

    That's not to say the new horns don't sound good. They still have a nice sound, but it's just not what it used to be. If a British-sound-lover-type of player has an older Besson that works well, he/she might not be inclined to switch to the new one for that reason alone (and be resigned to just "deal with" the poorer intonation on the older samples).

    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  4. Boosey and Hawkes vs. Buffet Crampon

    Having owned or played some of the classic B&H Imperial and Soveriegn models vs. now owning a new Buffet-Crampon Prestige, I can say that both Brandon's and Dave's remarks are right on and also not at odds with each other.

    The new Besson horns have FANTASTIC response compared with the old horns. They are much more open in the mid- low range and it is easier to play softly in the mid- high range. I do NOT find intonation particularly better with the new Prestige compared with my classic "Round Stamp" Sovereign. And both have much poorer intonation than the old late 60's vintage Imperial I played in college. But the trigger on the new Prestige tames the beast when used properly. The workmanship on the new horns is superb. Fit and finish is terrific, slides fit well, are tight, don't fall out, etc. The valve action on the new Besson horns is better than ANY other euphonium I have ever played and right up there with my mid-70's Bach trumpet, which heretofore had been the best brass instrument valves I had ever experienced.

    The tone of the new horns is good. I like the sound of my small bell 2051 better than a small bell Willson. It sings nicely with a sweet, classic British sound, but is on the lighter side. If my 2051 can be compared to a great Irish tenor like Ronan Tynan with its lyric, sweet voice, my old Sovereign was a Pavarotti at full song, able to power through everything. I have not lived with a new large bell Prestige 2052, though I would expect it to be a bit darker than my 2051.

    However, my new Sterling is in another category altogether. It is like a combination of Robert Merrill and Placido Domingo all rolled into one. Deep, dark, sonorous, rich, velvety, yet brilliant with a wonderful shimmer when driven in the high range.

    Doug
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

  5. #5

    Boosey and Hawkes vs. Buffet Crampon

    I have to weigh in with a differing opinion: the new horns are far and away superior in every way except sound.

    Sterling is the closest to the classic Besson sound. York is classic plus 1 (not necessarily better). Besson is classic minus 1 (not necessarily to be desired).

    Ah, but my Miraphone 5050 is the Helden Tenor of euphoniums.

    John

  6. Boosey and Hawkes vs. Buffet Crampon

    Those are some very descriptive comparisons. I guess my old King 2280 will just have to settle for Bing Crosby. Sometimes life is a tuxedo, and you are a pair of brown shoes.

  7. #7

    Boosey and Hawkes vs. Buffet Crampon

    Originally posted by: dkstone ...have to settle for Bing Crosby
    Hey, there's nothing wrong with sounding like Bing Crosby either!

    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  8. #8

    Boosey and Hawkes vs. Buffet Crampon

    Originally posted by: JTJ
    Ah, but my Miraphone 5050 is the Helden Tenor of euphoniums.
    John
    That's good to hear John, we have one on reserve for my son to test during winter break along side a prestige and a sterling, Trading or selling the New Standard off.

    Neil

  9. #9

    Boosey and Hawkes vs. Buffet Crampon

    Neil, that will be an interesting test and I would be interested in knowing which you select. I prefer the Miraphone. But at this level of instrument, any one player can choose between any of those three for equally valid reasons.

    John

  10. #10

    Boosey and Hawkes vs. Buffet Crampon

    Well let see....

    Can't give a recent view re. new to old soverigns...

    But I can say that new 2052 prestiges (in my opinion!) do have the best valves I've tried, they are far easier to blow than the old ones (Stuffy). They do have a slightly smaller bell, therefore a slightly lighter sound to the York emminance and the red belled Sterlings. However I still find the new 2052 a slightly larger sound and a fair bit easier to blow to my round stamp B&H which was made with much thicker gauge brass. Intonation still a problem but workable, top end more open.


    In fact I was thinking of changing to it..... from my 300mm heavy red brass bellled Virtuoso, for the valves. Although my Virtuoso is the perfect sound to me, I don't think I have enough air to make the most of it, I find 'PP' mid range playing I some times 'fluff' notes that I rarely miss on my old Soveriegn. But Paul at Sterling has helped me get the valves working as well as the new Prestige which has transformed it. The problem was due to the close fit of the valves the slightest contaminent of a different oil was making them sluggish, even though I washed & dried the valves when trying a different oil I needed to use a water soluble degreasent to get them clean! The other option I may do is to change to the standard gauge red brass bell...... Happy again.





    Current Euphs:
    York Eminence
    Boosey & Hawkes Sovereign (Round Stamp/ Globe)
    Boosey & Hawkes Imperial
    Plus an attic of old classics in various states of repair!
    Previous Euphs:

    Besson Prestige (German)
    Geneva Symphony
    Wilson 2900 with Eminence leadpipe
    Sterling Virtuoso (300 mm heavy red brass bell)
    Cortios 167 II
    'Gob Iron': Doug Elliott Euph 104 I 9s (plus a few others!)


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