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Thread: Schiller Owners Near NJ-NY

  1. #1

    Schiller Owners Near NJ-NY

    Does anyone own a Schiller that is near New Jersey? I am most likely going to buy the Schiller Elite but want to try one first.


  2. #2

    Schiller Owners Near NJ-NY

    I'm in the Worcester, MA area if you can't find one closer.

    John

  3. Some Feedback on the Schiller Elite

    John Pileggi was kind enough to bring both his new Schiller Elite compensating euphonium as well as his King 2280 over to my house this morning for me to try. John purchased his from Jim Laab Music in Wisconsin. Jim Laab lists this horn (lacquered brass) foR $885.00. The Schiller Elite appears to be a clone of the Yamaha 642, having similar brace locations, lead pipe bracing, and overall ergonomics. The horn has an 11.8" bell (larger than the 11" bell on my 2051 or John's 2280).

    John and I played his King 2280, the Schiller Elite, and my Besson 2051 Prestige for close to an hour. I did quite a few exercises from my daily routine to check flexibility, response, tone, pitch, range and other characteristics of the horn. My comments below reflect that experience.

    Caveat: I have limited playing time on this horn so my comments are really first impressions. Further, the acoustics in my somewhat dead living room are not really adequate to make a definitive comparison on tone.

    To get to my bottom line:

    "This is a hell of a lot of horn for the money"

    Having said that, I'd like to be fairly subjective and list the pros and cons as I see them:

    Pros

    1. The Schiller is reasonably constructed. The valve action on 1-2-3 is very smooth. The valves have plastic guides similar to the Yamaha or Besson guides, thus are very silent. I had no problems removing the valve caps and replacing them. The various slides have nickel plated legs and thus seem like they will resist corrosion to a reasonable extent.
    2. The hand rest for the right hand is well positioned and comfortable.
    3. The third valve slide is angled towards the outer bow like the Yamaha 642 so that the reach to the 4th valve is short and the horn can be held in the left hand even by someone with small hands.
    4. Pitch is quite good for most notes. The 6th partial Eb, and E were quite well in tune, even better than my Besson, but 6th partial F was WAY sharp. It was even sharper than I remember on my old Soverign.
    5. The sound was quite open and full across the range. Tone seemd quite good. Response in the upper middle and upper range was better than the King. The horn was just slightly more stuffy than the King 2280 in the low range.
    6. The larger 11.8" bell provides the more diffuse and warmer sound desired by many. The sound was less focused than that produced by the smaller 11" bell of the King or my Besson. Both the Besson and the King were much more focused particularly in upper middle and upper range.
    7. I found that the natural resonance of the Schiller made it easier for me to play in the high range above high Bb than the King, which requires much more effort.


    Cons
    1. The horn is quite light for a compensating euphonium. This is something commented upon by others. It makes me wonder about the longer term robustness of the construction.
    2. Pulling and refitting the 4th valve slide (to dump water) was slow due to some minor misalignment of the slide with the receiving tubes.
    3. The 4th valve piston seemed to have some issues. The horn was spitting water and passing air up through the top of the valve stem, leading me to believe that the fit of the 4th valve was quite "loose". It didn't seem to affect the sound or pitch much, but it was noticeable.
    4. High F# immediately above 6th partial F was a "problematic" note. The horn did not center well on this note, yet the dreaded high B above that note was fine.
    5. The lighter construction of the horn allowed me to overblow it pretty easily. I was able to get the horn to distort MUCH more easily than my Besson (which is quite noticeably heavier).
    6. The Besson has a much more linear and even response throughout its range than the Schiller, though I liked the way the Schiller played better than the King. I couldn't do an A/B comparison with a Yamaha 321, but I would rate it in the same ballpark as the 321 for eveness of response.

    Other comments: I think this horn will sound better with a heavier mouthpiece like the BB1, SM4 or Alliance E3. I normally play a Wick 4AL on my Besson, but prefered the sound of my SM4 when playing the Schiller. I find the same is true when I play a Yamaha 642.

    Summary: I will reiterate my earlier comments. This seems like a lot of horn for the money. I stop short of actually recommending this horn, however, due to my reservations about the robustness of the construction as evidenced by the 4th valve issues and the overall weight of the horn. Also, due to the fact that this horn is only available through one source in the US (Jim Laab), I would be a bit more concerned about getting parts and service. For me this is not an issue, since I work on my own horn for normal maintenance (felts, guides, etc.) but it may be a bigger issue for some.

    This horn could be a very appropriate choice for the amateur musician on a budget, a high school musician looking for an intermediate 3+1 horn that plays more like a pro horn than a Yamaha 321 or King 2280, or as a second horn for someone like myself. I would like to have a horn at the school where I teach math so that I could practice whenever I feel like it without having to lug my Besson around in my car or store it in my classroom. For $885 this becomes feasible.

    I would NOT recommend this horn to the high school or college student who is planning a music education or performance major. That player is much better served by listening to the recommendations of their teacher and sticking with the more recognized brands as appropriate to their situation and preference.

    I want to thank John Pileggi again for stopping by and having me audition his new horn. I enjoyed playing duets with John and I can tell he has worked hard on his own playing in the 2 years since I auditioned his King 2280 for the first time. John now has to choose between his King 2280 and the Schiller Elite. It will not be an easy choice.

    Doug
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

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