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Thread: Taking the Plunge

  1. #1

    Taking the Plunge

    I'm brand-spanking new to the forum and while I've posted on Sean Chisham's site a few dozen times, it's really nice to come to a forum that's almost all euph-related. Thanks, Dave, for this setup! (Better late than never, I guess, especially since I note it's been around for 4 years now. )

    Anyway, post-retirement from the Army, I still play and indeed, cannot not play. These days I find myself playing more bass 'bone than anything, but I am first and foremost a eupher. I've never achieved anything close to the pinnacle of the profession - but that's okay!

    Just a short blurb about my current equipment - I've played Bessons almost exclusively for the best part of 35 years. Some 15 years ago I bought a 967 from a friend of mine, who had purchased it new from WWBW a year or so before I bought it from him. This 967 is a fine horn and I've enjoyed playing it over the years. But the sharp 6th partial has been ever-present, and it got to the point where I had an after-market main tuning slide paddle put on it about 4 years ago, expertly done by Dan Schultz (The Tuba Tinker). The paddle does what it's supposed to and I've learned to use it, but I'm always aware that there are horns out there that don't have as big a problem with the 6th partial as most Bessons have - and mine is no exception.

    Anyway, after long and careful consideration (and permission from my viola-playing wife), it's time for a new horn. I've done a good amount of research and understand the biggest elements of the latest State of Euph Manufacturer Affairs (SEMA), and I've called the biggest sources for euphs here in the States - you all know them, so I won't get into that here.

    I am considering first trying the Sterling Virtuoso through Custom Music. We'll see how that goes. Then I'll try the Hirsbrunner Exclusive and gauge that.

    If necessary, I'll sojourn up to WWBW and evaluate as many horns as I can get them to bring in.

    These places are offering the most bang for the buck right now. I'm well aware of Dillon's for example - Matt did some work on my 967 about 10 years ago that did wonders for the valves. And I'm not ruling out a trip to NJ - but I'm reasonably certain I can find a horn that will "click" for me by staying closer to home (mid-Missouri).

    Dave has a great tutorial on how to purchase a new horn, and I fully intend to use his protocol, or something close to it. It's important for me to gauge how well the horn slots, intonation in that troublesome 6th partial, to see and hear and feel where there might be bad notes. Fit, form, and function are also important - one reason why I've never liked Yamahas - they just don't feel right to me.

    Anyway, I just thought I'd chime in on my 2nd thread here, and hope to spend more time reading and learning about my chosen instrument with all of you.



    U.S. Army, Retired (built mid-1950s)
    Adams E2 Euph (built 2017)
    Boosey & Co. Imperial Euph (built 1941)
    Edwards B454 Bass Trombone (built 2012)
    Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb tuba (built 1958)
    Kanstul 33-T lBBb tuba (built 2010)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,853

    Taking the Plunge

    Welcome to the forum Allen. Good luck with your search for a new horn.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  3. Taking the Plunge

    Eupher6,

    My eyes caught your sentence about WWBW:

    "If necessary, I'll sojourn up to WWBW and evaluate as many horns as I can get them to bring in."

    Beware of this company especially if you order something out for a test on a credit card with the expectation of sending it back within their stated 45 day trial period for a credit to your account!. They have two major office locations that DO NOT COMMUNICATE WELL WITH EACH OTHER!

    I have proof from UPS that WWBW received my test euph at 9:20 AM on March 9, 2009. WWBW says that they received it 4 days later, and currently they can't seem to locate it at all. They claim they need 10-14 days to process a return, therefore no credit has been posted to my account.

    I now have penalties and a plummeting credit record staring me in the face because of their non-communicative bureaucracy which thrives on inactivity (9 members of their office staff have responded to my emails and accomplished absolutely nothing). Supervisors near Kansas City are unable to communicate with shipping staff at their 2nd location.

    Both Custom Music and Warburton credited my account within 3 days!

    BEWARE!


  4. #4

    Taking the Plunge

    While numerous posters here and on other sites have reported problems with WWBW, I have ordered from them on numerous occasions and have occasionally returned items without difficulty.

    One consistent theme that emerges from the discussions of WWBW that I've read is that the retail store experience is infinitely better than the online and phone call center experience. IIRC, until recently at least, purchases made at or through the retail store are shipped from and returned to the store (if it is not available in the South Bend warehouse), which simplifies the "chain of responsibility." Whether or not this has changed since stock was relocated to the KC warehouse, I don't know.

    In any event, the consensus seems to be to contact Tuba/Low Brass specialist, Roger Lewis, when ordering instruments and tuba/low brass-specific accessories (cases, gig-bags, stands, harnesses, etc.) rather than ordering online or via the call center. If you DO decide to make the trip to WWBW, contact Roger ahead of time to ensure he will have the models you want to try on hand.

    Griz, if you have not already done so, file a chargeback and dispute with your credit card company. The dated UPS proof of delivery is sufficient documentation to get the charge and penalties removed from your account. At that point, it's a matter between the CC company and WWBW.

  5. #5

    Taking the Plunge

    Griz and fsung,

    Many thanks for your thoughts on this issue. I wasn't aware of Roger's posts over at TubeNet and while I don't have an issue with WWBW per se, it's nice to know where there are potential pitfalls.

    The real disappointment right now is that KC is 2.5 hours from me. South Bend is about 8 hours (with a good tailwind). It sure would be nice if WWBW could gin up a instrument trial center there. Maybe they've got some plans to do that in the future.

    U.S. Army, Retired (built mid-1950s)
    Adams E2 Euph (built 2017)
    Boosey & Co. Imperial Euph (built 1941)
    Edwards B454 Bass Trombone (built 2012)
    Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb tuba (built 1958)
    Kanstul 33-T lBBb tuba (built 2010)

  6. #6

    Taking the Plunge

    The Sterling arrived today. Very nice looking horn, indeed.

    I like the ergonomics so far and I'm pleased with the sixth partial being controllable.

    A couple of iffy notes, however - 4th space G is EXTREMELY sharp - about 35 cents - and while I know it's typical for that note to be sharp, this is waaaay sharp. Wow.

    It's early yet and I've got 13 more days to try this horn out.

    I haven't measured the bell, but I suspect that this is a 300 mm bell. The model number is HGS 1065. I think it's a "heavy gold" bell, meaning the rose brass bell in heavy gauge, but I'm not sure.

    Can somebody translate this model number for me, please? The accompanying paperwork lists only the serial number.



    U.S. Army, Retired (built mid-1950s)
    Adams E2 Euph (built 2017)
    Boosey & Co. Imperial Euph (built 1941)
    Edwards B454 Bass Trombone (built 2012)
    Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb tuba (built 1958)
    Kanstul 33-T lBBb tuba (built 2010)

  7. #7

    Taking the Plunge

    My heavy, red brass belled Virtuoso is denominated 1065 HGS.

    1065 is the model number of the Virtuoso; I believe it was also used for the Symphonic Band model, from which the Virtuoso evolved.

    If I'm recalling my conversation with Jeff Rideout of Custom Music at TUSABTEC earlier this year correctly, the three letter code identifies the bell weight, bell material, and the finish (silverplate or lacquer), respectively. HGS decodes to heavy, gold (red) brass, silverplated bell.


  8. #8

    Taking the Plunge

    Originally posted by: fsung My heavy, red brass belled Virtuoso is denominated 1065 HGS. 1065 is the model number of the Virtuoso; I believe it was also used for the Symphonic Band model, from which the Virtuoso evolved. If I'm recalling my conversation with Jeff Rideout of Custom Music at TUSABTEC earlier this year correctly, the three letter code identifies the bell weight, bell material, and the finish (silverplate or lacquer), respectively. HGS decodes to heavy, gold (red) brass, silverplated bell.
    Thanks, fsung, for your response. I had requested the heavy rose brass bell from Jeff when I talked to him, but we did not discuss particular model numbers. And yes, I got the sequence backwards - it's 1065HGS and not HGS1065.

    I am going to be using Hetman's on this horn, because it's what I have, and I'm looking forward to the rest of the trial.

    So far, I'm impressed with the Sterling. I hear no fundamental differences between my 967 and this horn, meaning that I've ALWAYS been partial to the Besson sound and this one sounds every bit as good, and the added benefit of better intonation.

    U.S. Army, Retired (built mid-1950s)
    Adams E2 Euph (built 2017)
    Boosey & Co. Imperial Euph (built 1941)
    Edwards B454 Bass Trombone (built 2012)
    Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb tuba (built 1958)
    Kanstul 33-T lBBb tuba (built 2010)

  9. #9

    Taking the Plunge

    By the way, regarding the sharp G, it's a long shot but ... when I got my Sterling (which had been a demo horn), I had a couple of outliers that improved a bit after cleaning the leadpipe, valves (including the caucades), tuning slides and having the valves aligned.

    The thing that made the biggest difference, though, was figuring out how the horn wanted to be played on those notes rather than playing them like I played them on my New Standard.

  10. #10

    Taking the Plunge

    RE: the G.

    There is a common trade-off in newer horns. In order to get the 6th partial under control that G can ride a little high. However, Felix described the situation perfectly.

    On some horns, the G really wants to be sharp and it takes some work to get it down to pitch. My experience with the Sterling is that it will allow itself to play sharp, but does not insist on it! It's mostly a matter of learning to "let it" play in tune. Just relax it into place. It's partly a matter of response, I think, plus the "what you are used to" factor.

    FWIW: I am starting to be a wimp with my trigger. I use it at times when I really would not have to, but I'm trying to learn to use it instead of even a minor chop adjustment. However, I don't generally use it on the G, so I take that as a sign that the note can be nicely in tune if we don't get in its way.

    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

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