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Thread: Besson Prestige Baritone Horn

  1. Besson Prestige Baritone Horn

    Not strictly a Euphonium, however, I noticed today that the much waited (matter of opinion) Prestige Baritone has now been released. A picture has been posted on Normans (here), and it has come to my attention, beautiful (if you can call a baritone that) as it is - that it is lacking a trigger...isn't this the point of the Prestige Range?
    Aside from that point. I noticed that this is their only 4 valve model of the baritone. Maybe this is what gives the "advantage" (although in my opinion, the 4 valve models were always bad for tuning) of the Prestige Baritone.

    Discuss

  2. #2

    Besson Prestige Baritone Horn

    Interesting. I love how these horns play (at least the Sovereigns), from the limited time I've played them in the elephant room. I'd buy one, but no way I can justify spending $5k+ for an instrument that I would sometimes use in brass band. I have played the English baritone parts on euphonium in brass band before. No the sound isn't quite what is needed. I bought a nice used Yamaha english baritone for less than $1k (3 valve, noncompensating), but the ergonomics and intonation forced me to part with it. If our band got really really good and they needed a dedicated baritone player, perhaps I would go for it.

    As a compensating euph player, I always felt the 4 valve model felt like a natural double. Why is it that the 3 valve compensating design has stuck as the standard for these baritones? I read somewhere that the 3 valve designs outsell the 4 valve horns over 2 to 1. I've trained myself to use the 4th valve for all 1+3 and 1+2+3 valve combintations and it is much more in tune. Yes, I know the 3 valve compensating system can correct those, but it would be a much easier double for ME to go with the 4 valve.

    Speaking of 4 valves, why did they have to make the baritone compensating? I've never seen baritone parts go terribly low. Yamaha used to make a 3+1 noncompensating baritone, but I've never played it. I wish Besson made one like that to keep the price down. The Bessons I've played had a darker sound than the smaller bore Yamaha baritones.
    - Scott

    Euphoniums: Dillon 967, Monzani MZEP-1150S, Dillon 1067 (kid’s horn)
    Bass Trombones: Greenhoe GB5-3G, Getzen 1052FDR, JP232
    King Jiggs P-bone

  3. Besson Prestige Baritone Horn

    Why is there no trigger on the Besson Prestige Baritone? I have no real conclusive reason, and it does make sense to me that the Baritone Prestige line should have a trigger. However, they may have decided not to put on a trigger on the Baritone because the 6th partial is probably not nearly as sharp as it is on a Euphonium. I could be wrong, but I think that the much larger and more conical bore of the Euphonium exaggerates the sharpness of the 6th partial; as compared to the Baritone or Trombone that is much less sharp on the 6th partial due to the much smaller cylindrical bore. I could be completely wrong in that explanation, but I'm pretty sure that I have heard somewhere that the conical bore of Euph and Tuba will make the 6th partial much sharper than on cylindrical instruments.
    Gregory E. Lopes
    Euphonium player
    US Navy Band Great Lakes
    US Navy Music Program, 2009-Present

    Besson Prestige 2052

  4. #4

    Besson Prestige Baritone Horn

    Yes Greg, correct, those notes have never been that much of a problem for baritones.

    Euphdude; why make a 4v comp. bari; the baritone parts in major works for the British Open/European & National Championships etc. now demand it, added to that the music played by artists like Katrina Marzella and you would be struggling on anything else.

    CB

  5. Besson Prestige Baritone Horn

    When i played Baritone, i made a concious decision not to use the 4th valve. It was absolutely pointless in my opinion. Playing the 1st and 3rd, as opposed to the 4th didn't seem to change the note at all. 4th maybe slightly dampened it, but didn't change the tuning...Mind you, i only played on the baritone once or twice and had it home once...I tended to play the Baritone parts on Euph in rehearsals...Not to say that i didn't like the Baritone. I do sometimes wish i could play one more often. I like the sound, and it's easier to play louder, considering it's a smaller instrument. But i would not make the permanent move. Love my euph too much

    The only instrument left in the Besson range not to be in the Prestige range. EEb & BBb Tuba's!

    Ooh, and French horn, but there aren't any professional models of them out yet

  6. Besson Prestige Baritone Horn

    I found this review while googling earlier today

    The New Besson Prestige Baritone BE2056-2-0
    In the words of Steven Mead....

    "The new Besson Prestige Baritone 2056 has several new features which will undoubtedly make it a leader in its field.

    Its substantial and extensive remodelling from the previous
    Besson 956 is sure to delight devotees of the instrument as now the instrument plays better, is easier to hold, is more in tune and has the significant benefit of a newly designed valve group, the hallmark quality of the all the new Besson range.

    The valve action is quite incredible, making troublesome valves a thing of the past!

    Its striking good looks with its gold trim on valve top and bottom caps, valve button tops and water keys are sure to attract attention and it sits proudly as the 'new member' in the Prestige range of Besson brass instruments.
    The 4th valve has been repositioned at a different angle making it much more ergonomically easier to hold and operate this valve easily. Besson took advice from several leading exponents of the instrument who suggested exactly the best position for the 4th valve.



    The previous position was more at right angles to the body of the instrument and more difficult to operate and so the new angle allows the first finger of the left hand to use this with much greater ease and rapidity.



    The tuning of the instrument is a big improvement over the old model due to exhaustive testing and modification of slide lengths. Concerns over tuning have for a long time troubled baritone players and they have been forced into making changes of fingering to get the notes close to the correct pitch. This new 2056 will make playing in tune so much easier, especially with the fully compensating system that this instrument has.

    By fully compensating we mean the third compensating slide on the back on the instrument is now at the correct length (compare this to the old model 956 and that of our competitors), enabling players to play the low chromatic scale from bottom C to pedal C completely in tune. In the past the lowest notes, using 2,3,4, 1,3,4 and 1,2,3,4 were very sharp in pitch as this 3rd compensating slide on the back on the instrument was too short. The clever remodelling of the slide configuration has enabling the lengthening of this slide and still reducing blowing resistance



    A close inspection will reveal
    a reshaping of some of the 'internal' tubing of the instrument , getting rid of the tight bends in the tubing and thus reducing resistance and making the instrument easier blowing.



    In short , the new Prestige 2056 is a joy to hold , a pleasure to operate and yet the crowning glory has to be the fact that
    the
    true Besson sound, famous for generations, has now just got even better.

    All the tubing of this instrument has been made in a new way, using different high pressure water techniques, resulting in tubing that is more resonant than ever before, without the huge metal tension present in the old way of bending tubing. These benefits have been noticed on the superb Besson euphoniums as well as all the other instruments throughout the range. Up to 30% greater resonance has been measured in scientific tests.

    There is a clearly detectable improvement in the smoothness of the instrument as well as a much improved centred and richness of tone in the high and low registers. The notes around and above top C play with more centre and freedom, and respond better now to extremes of dynamics. The pedal tones, should you ever need them, are massive and stable !


    Technology has also benefitted greatly with the new drilling procedures of the valve group ensuring perfect fit and perfect action every time for the new 2056 Baritone. Smooth, silent action is guaranteed, summing up the remarkable achievement in valve technology demonstrated in the new Besson range. No spring noise, no excessive bouncing, just a smooth action with no sticking, meaning you can depend on these valves whatever the situation. They will never let you down.


    All in all this is a remarkable breakthrough in baritone design, well and truly taking this instrument into the 21st century."

    Available to order from Normans NOW!

    Note, the Baritone is the only prestige model without the Black Onyx inserts...again, why?

  7. #7

    Besson Prestige Baritone Horn

    My new Besson Prestige 2056-2 baritone horn shipped today!

    With great sadness, my 1979 B&H Imperial and Miraphone 1258A had to go in order to afford the new horn. I also needed to thin out the herd. Too many horns, and not enough practice time.

    Eric Hand at Peninsula Music and Repair in Palo Alto gave me very good trade-in allowances. The traded horns should appear on their used instrument list soon, if anyone is interested.

    The new horn should arrive around July 1. I will post my first impressions over the July 4th weekend and then follow up after a decent test interval.

    I am attending a summer traditional jazz camp for adults (!!!) which convenes in New Orleans during the first week of August. The new horn should freak out a few of the trombone players!
    Bruce H Ward
    Houston TX

    Besson BE2056-2 4-Valve Compensating Baritone
    1946 Conn 30-I Wonderphone 5-Valve Double-bell

  8. #8

    Besson Prestige Baritone Horn

    First Impression: Superb.
    I see absolutely no hype whatsoever in the 4barsrest review.

    (Edited to add 4barsrest link and clarify the next sentence).

    My horn has the standard Prestige black onyx inserts on the finger buttons. The horn pictured in the Besson PR review shown above evidently had the older style inserts.

    There is no need for a trigger.
    Tight clearances of the tubing probably would not permit an easy fit. There is not enough room for a Grime Gutter, much less a real water catcher.

    First pass tuning after a 30 minute warmup proved quite satisfactory.

    6th partial (F4 concert) is spot-on. The fifth partial (D4 concert) was about 10 cents flat. The 1-2 valve combination was also a bit flat. However, the 4-1-2 combination seems to work just fine.

    Third partial (F3 concert) does not slot quite as fast as I would prefer. Fourth valve solves that one until I get my rusty embouchure calibrated to the new mouthpiece.

    The bundled mouthpiece is an Alliance B6. I plan to order a Wick SM6 this week.
    Transitioning from large shank SM5 on the Imperial to small shank 6 will take time, plus a good bit of mouthpiece-only buzzing with the electric piano and digital tuner.

    Length: 23 inches. Bell diameter 9 3/8". Weight: 6.4 lbs.

    Shoulder strap only took a couple of tries to get configured.
    No load on left arm, so goodbye tendinitis!
    Bruce H Ward
    Houston TX

    Besson BE2056-2 4-Valve Compensating Baritone
    1946 Conn 30-I Wonderphone 5-Valve Double-bell

  9. #9

    Besson Prestige Baritone Horn

    Denis Wick SM6B beats the bundled Alliance B6. No contest.
    Bruce H Ward
    Houston TX

    Besson BE2056-2 4-Valve Compensating Baritone
    1946 Conn 30-I Wonderphone 5-Valve Double-bell

  10. Besson Prestige Baritone Horn

    Bruce,

    I have been using the Wick SM6B on my York 2056. I use either that or a Bach 6 1/2AL. I wouild love to get my hands on an Alliance 6B. If you decide to part with it, let me know.

    Doug
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

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