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Thread: Lip Trills

  1. #1

    Lip Trills

    Can anyone help me work on my lip trills.

    I need to use them for some songs I'm playing this year, and I don't even know the philosophy behind the concept; and I need some enlightening.

    Thanks

  2. Lip Trills

    I'll try to keep my response short and sweet, but that probably won't happen. One of the best ways that I have found to practice lip trills is to work on your lip slurs at a higher tempo. This does NOT mean that you should just take your lip slur exercises and suddenly bump the tempo to twice as fast and practice them in an out of control manner (I'm not saying that you or anyone else would do that... but I just wanted to make it clear)! The key is to slowly push the tempo, until you can do them at a very fast tempo with the same amount of control as the slower tempo. Once you are able to do sixteenth note lip slurs cleanly at mm=90, go to 100... then 110... then 120... and so on. you get the picture. The most effective lip slur exercises for developing lip trills would most likely be a two note lip slur, such as Bb to D, or D to F (then progressing down by half steps). So practice a two note lip slur, and gradually push the tempo so that you maintain the same level of control and clarity on the lip trills. Oh, and take the time and patience to do it right. Don't expect that by the end of tonight you will be able to play cleanly play lip slurs at mm=140, and be able to play amazingly controlled and clean lip trills. Again, I'm not saying that you would do this, but it is all too often that we find ourselves (myself included of course) rushing towards a goal and trying to achieve it before we are actually physically able to. Just have patience, give it plenty of time and you'll get it. Just out of curiosity, what songs are you playing that require lip trills?
    Gregory E. Lopes
    Euphonium player
    US Navy Band Great Lakes
    US Navy Music Program, 2009-Present

    Besson Prestige 2052

  3. #3

    Lip Trills

    1) So is a lip trill just a fancier and faster lip slur, or does it require a different type of technique (like tongue movement)?

    2) Well I'm recording the Morceau de Concert for a CD which needs the lip trill for the concert G to the concert A. Then I was asked to play Blue Bells of Scotland for band.

    Thanks for the tips

  4. Lip Trills

    I don't have any recordings or the sheet music to Morceau de Concert, so I'm not too familiar with it. But, would it be possible, or more efficient to do a normal valve trill from 1+2 to 2 to achieve the trill from g to a? You can certainly do it with a lip trill... but it might be better and cleaner with a valve trill; then again, maybe it won't be. Just use which ever one works best for you. For your first question, yes, a lip trill is essentially a fancier and much faster lip slur. You don't move your tongue at all on a lip trill, use just utilize the same technique as a lip slur, just as higher speeds. To be honest it is a technique that is rarely used in classical settings for brass players. I have only used a lip trill one or two times total in any type of classical literature (both times were in solos). However, I do use it frequently when I when I am playing improv jazz solos on trombone. Usually used in the very high range.
    Gregory E. Lopes
    Euphonium player
    US Navy Band Great Lakes
    US Navy Music Program, 2009-Present

    Besson Prestige 2052

  5. #5

    Lip Trills

    Originally posted by: GregEuphonium

    I don't have any recordings or the sheet music to Morceau de Concert, so I'm not too familiar with it. But, would it be possible, or more efficient to do a normal valve trill from 1+2 to 2 to achieve the trill from g to a? You can certainly do it with a lip trill... but it might be better and cleaner with a valve trill; then again, maybe it won't be. Just use which ever one works best for you. For your first question, yes, a lip trill is essentially a fancier and much faster lip slur. You don't move your tongue at all on a lip trill, use just utilize the same technique as a lip slur, just as higher speeds. To be honest it is a technique that is rarely used in classical settings for brass players. I have only used a lip trill one or two times total in any type of classical literature (both times were in solos). However, I do use it frequently when I when I am playing improv jazz solos on trombone. Usually used in the very high range.
    When you practiced the Morceau de Concert with me you suggested a lip trill instead of that difficult valve trill.


  6. #6

    Lip Trills

    Some trills are just plain harder with valves, and G/A concert is one of them. G can be played with 12 or 2 (it is flat with the latter), and A can be played with 2 or 12. So just flapping the valves won't necessarily make the notes change. In fact, you can easily do a nice tremolo effect (like a trill where both notes are the same) on G or A by using the trill fingering 12/2.

    Soooo, what's a person to do? A lip trill. When you first learn to lip trill it is likely to sound rough, not at all like a regular trill. But as you practice it and get stronger (did I mention that lip trills are a great way to build strength?) you can make it sound much smoother.

    The muscle action is almost like doing a lip vibrato, but with a wider motion. Did I mention that practicing lip trills will ultimately give you more control over your lip vibrato?

    If you already use a lip vibrato it's pretty easy to turn that into a lip trill. Just make the vibrato get wider and wider until it hops up to the next partial (the next note played with the same fingering). Most people start working around a Bb-D lip trill, or you might start with a B-natural (12) to D (12) lip trill. It's a wider interval than you cover for G/A, but it's in a range where you already have more strength.

    You can start by slurring from B to D slowly, then moving quicker and quicker. At some point you stop "playing" both notes - you just waggle your chops and kind-of "aim" between the two notes. As your embouchure loosens the note will drop down, and as it tightens it will go up. That actually is the final technique. In a lip trill you never actually "play" (by centering your chops on) either note; your chops are centered in between the two notes, and the wide-vibrato action of your lips delivers the two notes as a trill.

    Sometimes you "settle" for a trill that is more than a whole step, just as a necessary convenience. But by using alternate fingerings you can get a "normal" whole-note lip trill. In CONCERT pitch:

    D / E with 123 (or 24)
    Eb / F with 13 (or 4)
    E / F# with 23
    F / G with 13 (or 4 or 12, depending on the sound you want)
    F# / A# with 23
    G / A with 12 (or 3)
    Ab / Bb with 1
    A / B with 2 (or 12)
    Bb / C open
    B / C# with 2
    C / E open
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  7. #7

    Lip Trills

    Actually, the technique is often used in classical technique. On modern instruments, French horn players probably use it the most because they are often in a high-enough range that finger trills can give a tremolo instead of trill. Trumpet players would need it when playing natural (valveless) trumpets. More and more trombone music requires trills, and in that case lip trills are necessary, or sometimes a hybrid trill, where you move the slide between notes but move your chops simultaneously.

    An example on trombone would be a trill from D to E. It could be done with a lip trill in 7th position, or the trombonist could use 1st position for the D and 2nd for the E, which requires a "lip-trill-like" chop motion to make the trill work.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  8. Lip Trills

    Originally posted by: 2MuchTone

    Originally posted by: GregEuphonium



    I don't have any recordings or the sheet music to Morceau de Concert, so I'm not too familiar with it. But, would it be possible, or more efficient to do a normal valve trill from 1+2 to 2 to achieve the trill from g to a? You can certainly do it with a lip trill... but it might be better and cleaner with a valve trill; then again, maybe it won't be. Just use which ever one works best for you. For your first question, yes, a lip trill is essentially a fancier and much faster lip slur. You don't move your tongue at all on a lip trill, use just utilize the same technique as a lip slur, just as higher speeds. To be honest it is a technique that is rarely used in classical settings for brass players. I have only used a lip trill one or two times total in any type of classical literature (both times were in solos). However, I do use it frequently when I when I am playing improv jazz solos on trombone. Usually used in the very high range.


    When you practiced the Morceau de Concert with me you suggested a lip trill instead of that difficult valve trill.
    Oh ya, I remember that... haha. Well, to be honest, you need to find what is going to work best for you. I have never played the Morceau de Concert, so when I sight read it that one time that I met up with you, I may have just found the lip trill to be the easier technique for me on the spot. But even still... decide which one is going to be best for you, because both lip and valve trills are valid.
    Gregory E. Lopes
    Euphonium player
    US Navy Band Great Lakes
    US Navy Music Program, 2009-Present

    Besson Prestige 2052

  9. #9

    Lip Trills

    Another little tip. When our euph-tuba quartet would play Stars and Stripes Forever I would cover the piccolo part in the last strain. There are many trills on E-flat concert, and there are a couple on D-flat. The E-flat trill works either way - valves or lip (with 13), but a D-flat trill really stinks - 2 to 1, and across the partial series at that. So I used a lip trill for both.

    But you may ask, "How does one do a lip trill from D-flat to E-flat?" Well, you can do it with 14, but that kind of stinks too (it's pretty stuffy for that register). So I did a lip trill on 2nd valve, which would go up to an E-natural instead of E-flat. I had to emphasize the bottom not slightly more in this case, which made the upper note much less noticeable.

    You can hear a sample of that here:

    Cimarron Music, euphonium page

    Or just click the link below for the MP3:

    Stars and Stripes Forever, Euphonium-Tuba Quartet
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  10. Lip Trills

    great job on the last part that was really cool
    is there any way i could get that mp3

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