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Thread: 3 valve v.s 4 valve

  1. 3 valve v.s 4 valve

    I played a 3 valve baritone many yrs. ago.

    Does a 4 valve require a new fingering pattern or is the 4th for changing tone or whatever? (something like the pedals on a piano)

    I want to be a informed before I purchase a new instrument.

    Also, what is a "compensating" instrument?

    Tnx,

    Jerry

  2. #2

    3 valve v.s 4 valve

    Jerry,

    All your three valve fingerings work on a four valve horn. but a four valve horn gives you alternate fingerings and a bit more range.

    The fourth valve drops the key of the open partials from Bb to F, a perfect fourth. Concert E2 is 1-2-3 on a three valve, and can be played as 2-4 on a four valve. F2 is 1-3 on a three valve horn, but can be played using just the 4th valve on a four valve horn. Likewise, C3 is 1-3 on a three valve horn, and can be played with the 4th valve. The fourth valve can also be used to control the sometimes-sharp open F3 and F4 concert (3rd and 6th partials).

    Check Dr. Werden's discussion of the four valve compensating system at:
    http://www.dwerden.com/eu-articles-comp.cfm
    Bruce H Ward
    Houston TX

    Besson BE2056-2 4-Valve Compensating Baritone
    1946 Conn 30-I Wonderphone 5-Valve Double-bell

  3. 3 valve v.s 4 valve

    To make it real simple. Most people start by using 4th valve to replace 1&3 and 2,4 to replace 123. I takes a little time to get used to it but it realy helps with the tuning.

    After this you can use the 4th valve to play very low notes. For this you do need to have a fingering chart for your type of horn. On a Compensating horn the 4th valve will act like an octave key and your low F will be just 4, Eb will be 4&1, C will be 134, and Pedal Bb will be open.

    Even if you never play these low notes in band, playing them in practice can be fun and improve range and endurance.

  4. 3 valve v.s 4 valve

    I must say that having a 4th valve has been a great help in improving my range and tuning its great ting to have.

  5. #5

    3 valve v.s 4 valve

    A 4th valve is necessary for serious playing, and is very handy for other types of playing. If you never go below a concert D-flat then you won't get much benefit, but most music wouldn't work for you. The 4 and 2&4 combination make things much better in tune in the normal range, and with 4 valves you can go lower, which is often required in solos and even sometimes in ensemble much.

    If you have a 3-valve compensating horn (pretty uncommon) you can play in tune in the low range, but would not have the extended range below concert E.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  6. #6
    Old thread, but I figured if I found this through Google, others may too...
    I'd also like to add that I've had a case where even though I could play a passage of music without a 4th valve (never mind issues regarding being in tune), the fingering was easier by substituting the 4th valve.

  7. Everybody makes it more difficult than it is. It is literally elementary arithmetic. To get better intonation, set the 4th valve slide and use the 4th valve. Then 1+3=4. First plus third is the same as using 4th valve alone. In other words, every note that a 3-valve instrument plays 1+3 is played 4th alone on a 4-valve horn, whether comp or non-comp.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Smoketown, Pa
    Posts
    233
    I've never played a comp horn but have had the 4 valve euphoniums ever since I switched from cornet in 10th grade. Started on an old Conn 4 valve probably a baritone and then to the 24I in 1964 and now own three euphoniums all 4 valve. In all my playing experience I would say that the 3 valve horns just aren't as good or cover the parts as well as the 4 valves.

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