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Thread: How do i Buy a euphonium?

  1. How do i Buy a euphonium?

    I'm in middle school and i play the Euphonium.

    I just started last year and have made a lot of progress. My rent is ending soon and i want to buy one that i can sell after using so i can get another after college. I'm not close to being a pro AT ALL >.< but i hope to be
    I have participated in one college band and was invited to play at carnagie hall for the NY Pops galla concert (a reasonable start)
    I want a realiable Euphonium that i could use for five years
    We got a Yamaha YEP-201 student euphonium and the tubing was weak and not secure. The first valve had problems due to the way they put it together with too much pressure.

    I took it to the music shop and the owner showed me how the valves were sensitive to pressure. I could damage the valves when holding the euphonium in playing position! Yamahas are very overpriced and i do NOT want another one. They are NOT reliable like i wanted them to be.
    The Guy showed me a great begining to intermediate Euphonium with a fourth compensating valve at a reasonable price of about 1,400 dollars. It was made to imitate the old english bessons (i THINK)

    He created it himself and a company is soon manufacturing them. THey seem reasonable, but i have to use an adapter for my mouthpiece.
    Is this reasonable? What should i do?

    Thanks! -Annie

  2. #2

    How do i Buy a euphonium?

    First, who is this making the 4-valve compesating euphonium? What is the Brand/model?

    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  3. #3

    How do i Buy a euphonium?

    Where are you located?

    I suspect the compensating euphonium you were shown was made in China. While SOME of these horns are acceptable, they can very widely in terms of quality and intonation. I have played some very nice examples at Tuba Exchange, but on my most recent visit to TE, I saw some significant fit and finish issues on the horns in the latest shipment (silverplate flaking, green, raw brass spots on 2 lacquered horns, misaligned tuning slide legs, etc.).

    The biggest issues with Chinese- (and Indian-) made horns at this point are repairs and getting replacement parts. I very briefly considered buying a vendor-branded Chinese-made euph at the US Army Band Tuba Euphonium Conference, until I spoke to the vendor's repair person about replacement parts: his answer was that they're keeping one horn aside to cannibalize for spare parts when the need arises, which begs the question of whether even THEY can get spare parts for "their" horns. And a number of reputable instrument repair techs I've queried have said, flat out, that, at this point, they will not repair Chinese-made horns owing to the poor quality of materials.

    (FWIW: I highly doubt the guy actually created it from scratch and contracted out manufacture to some company; more likely, he "tweaked" an existing stencil from a Chinese or Indian manufacturer. There are at least a dozen vendors in the US that I know of that have done this, and four or five in the UK.)

    I have never handled or played a Yamaha 201, so I can't comment on the build quality or quality of materials, but I think you're doing yourself a disservice by writing off the Yamaha 321 without first trying it. If you DO step up to a 321, I think you will find the quality to be significantly better; I also think you'll find that the price is more than competitive with other horns of similar quality. And I can pretty much guarantee that, down the road, the resale value of a 321 will be significantly higher than that of a Chinese/Indian-made horn.

    In addition to the Yamaha 321, I would suggest checking out the King 2280 (the new Bach 1110 is a clone of the 2280; the older 1100 is a 321 clone), Jupiter 570, and Weril 980.

    Re: the adapter - your Yamaha 201 uses a small shank mouthpiece, while the compensating horn uses either a large- or european shank mouthpiece. Most likely, any new euph you buy will come with a mpc with the appropriately sized shank.

  4. #4

    How do i Buy a euphonium?

    Originally posted by: fsung
    The biggest issues with Chinese- (and Indian-) made horns at this point are repairs and getting replacement parts. ...
    And a number of reputable instrument repair techs I've queried have said, flat out, that, at this point, they will not repair Chinese-made horns owing to the poor quality of materials.
    Absolutely something to keep in mind. Do a search for "Chinese" on the forum and you will find lots of discussion. Not all bad, mind you, but many things to consider.


    Originally posted by: fsung
    If you DO step up to a 321, I think you will find the quality to be significantly better; I also think you'll find that the price is more than competitive with other horns of similar quality. And I can pretty much guarantee that, down the road, the resale value of a 321 will be significantly higher than that of a Chinese/Indian-made horn.
    I've been "watching" the 321 for lots and lots of years and my impression is that the quality has been consistently good, especially given the fact that it's not intended as a professional horn.

    FWIW a good friend who plays in our church's brass group just got a 321 for Christmas. We've played together several times since then and the horn seems to be made very well.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  5. #5

    How do i Buy a euphonium?

    The Yamaha 321 is certainly not a bad horn. I've been playing on one for only a year and a half (school owned horn that's 10 years old) and have found it to be great. Previous to the 321, I've played the 201 for 4 years. I also recently purchased a Yamaha 642 (by now you can see what manf I prefer) and have found the 321 to have the best valves, IMO. The 321 sounds good throughout it's range and has a great dark tone that sounds so good with American bands (I played it with a schilke 51D). For $1400, I doubt that compensating horn is going to be any good. Also, if you get a new horn, you'll most likely want a good mouthpiece to make use of it. You didn't mention what you are using, but if you get a large shank horn, you'll be restricting the benefits of a larger bore with a smaller shank.

    -Sh0ty

  6. #6

    How do i Buy a euphonium?

    Originally posted by: Sh0ty
    For $1400, I doubt that compensating horn is going to be any good.
    I concur.

    Are you sure the horn you were shown was a compensating horn, not a 3+1 non-compensating horn, like the Besson 1065 (BTW, Dillon Music is selling the 1065 for $1476) or Jupiter 570?

    $1400 is roughly $1000 less than the price of other new Chinese-made compensating horns I've seen or seen advertised: the Dillon stencil comp horn, for example, is $2495; the Tuba Exchange one is $2395 in lacquer ($2795 silver); and the TubaMM one is $2375 in lacquer. So unless the horn you were shown was used, I would have to believe that the manufacturer and/or the vendor was cutting corners somewhere to be able to shave $1000 of the price of a compensating horn and still sell it at a profit.

  7. #7

    How do i Buy a euphonium?

    I agree with pretty much everyone on this thread about not buying that chinese made horn, while you can possibly get a good one, chances are you wont, and i dont think it's worth the risk.

    I also agree about the Yamaha 321, I currently play one and i think it is one of the best non-compensating horns out there, espesially for a player jsut starting to become great. It is very easy to play in tune on this horn. It has a great rich, and dark tone (which i personly like) and is long lasting, and should, if taken care of, last 5+ years, until you buy a more advanced horn. But i wouldn't overrule yamahas just yet until you've at least tried the yamaha 321, it's not too expensive either.

  8. #8

    How do i Buy a euphonium?

    Originally posted by: Rocke

    I agree with pretty much everyone on this thread about not buy a chinese made horn, while you can possibly get a good one, chances are you wont, and i dont think it's worth the risk.
    Just to clarify, I am not saying don't buy a Chinese- or Indian- made horn, or that the chances of getting a good horn are necessarily any higher or lower than getting a good one from an established manufacturer (see Besson under The Music Group's stewardship). The fact that a horn is of Chinese/Indian manufacture doesn't automatically mean it's going to be bad, any more than the fact that a horn is of British/German manufacture means it's going to be good: the German-made (Schreiber Keilwerth) Bessons, for example, earned a reputation for questionable workmanship and poor quality control; and I recently ran across a post by a York Eminence owner reporting that the third valve on his brand new $7800 Schreiber Keilworth-built horn literally came apart on him.

    Most critics will admit that Chinese horns in particular have improved significantly since they first began to appear on the market, but they have not, as of yet, been around long enough to establish a track record for reliability, quality, and value.

    Consequently, what I AM saying is that there are important factors beyond the (admittedly) attractive initial cost that need to be weighed carefully before deciding to purchase a Chinese/Indian made horn: factors such as quality of materials, workmanship, availability of replacement parts, repairability, warranty service (what happens if you move across the country or the shop you buy the horn from goes out of business?), resale value should you decide to sell it in the future, etc..

    Ultimately, it's about finding a horn that "speaks" for you and fits your budget.

    Regardless of the brand and model you ultimately choose, bear in mind that the playing characteristics of horns vary, even between horns of the same model. (If you look at my review of the Besson 967s/968s I played at the Army Band conference earlier this year, you'll see that I preferred the 968s at the Besson to 967s, but at the Dillon and WWBW stands, I preferred the 968s.)

    Ideally, you would be able to play several different models (Yamaha 321, King 2280, Bach 1110, Jupiter 570, Besson 1065, vendor-brand) to find one or two that work well for you (both musically and ergonomically), and then - again, ideally - to play several horns of the same model to find the best one in the lot.

    Unfortunately, very few brick-and-mortar musical instrument dealers can afford to stock even one example of every euph they sell, much less several of each to chose from; so unless you're fortunate to live near a large volume dealer such as WWBW, Baltimore Brass, Dillon Music, or Tubadome, or you have the opportunity to attend a conference where several vendors have horns available to play, you're not likely to get the chance to play several of the same model unless it's a house-branded Chinese horn. Given that, you should insist on having a reasonable trial period (for me, it would be a minimum of two weeks), during which you may return the horn, no questions asked, for a full or nearly full refund (for non-house-branded stencil euphs, a small restocking fee is probably in order since the vendor will incur a cost to special order the horn).

  9. #9

    How do i Buy a euphonium?

    oops, sorry, i should have worded that diffently. I meant to say the horn they were selling, not all chinese horns, was most likely not a good deal. i changed that post just so everyone is clear. thanks

  10. How do i Buy a euphonium?

    My son is going to be entering high school. He has been playing a 3 valve baritone. It is time for him to move up to a 4 valve model. I would like to get him a compensating horn, but, my budget (<$1,500) says otherwise. Unless I am able to scrounge up a good used model I am comforable with, I would be inclined to buy a new horn, like the Jupiter 570 or Bession 1065. I like the idea of a 3+1 valve, since this configuration is used for most compensating horns, if we decide to upgrade him at a later time

    How does the Besson 1065 compare to the Jupiter 570?

    Any other insights you have are welcome

    Thanks for your consideration.

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