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Thread: Impressions of Bach 1103

  1. #1

    Impressions of Bach 1103

    Hello everybody!

    My first post here after lurking around for a while.
    I'm thinking about getting a better Euphonium to replace the 1909 Holton I currently have. I've seen several Bach 1103 horns on eBay recently but I haven't found anything on the 'net about what they are comparable to or what their good and bad points are.
    I'm hoping some of the members here might have some thoughts on the subject. I don't have a ton of money to put out on a horn (I'm primarily a trombone player and just got a newer Yamaha) but i'm finding the Holton I have to be very frustrating to continue playing on (intonation seems bad in the extreme) and I'm hoping to find a decent upgrade.

    Thanks for any input.

    Peter.

  2. #2

    Impressions of Bach 1103

    Hi Peter,

    I don't have any experience with the Bach 1103, but think that you would be much happier over the long haul with a 4-valve horn instead because it would provide you greater range (low end) and more fingering options for better intonation. If $ is an issue, look at the used 4-valve market. Some horns to consider include Bach 1110 and King 2280 (large shank) and Yamaha 321 (small shank).

    John

  3. Impressions of Bach 1103

    I believe that the Bach euphoniums are real close to the Yamaha models, be they three valve or four valve. In the last month, three YEP321's were on e-bay--two went for $1700, the third (in my opinion, the better choice) went for $970. At the same time, a Conn 191 (King 2280 clone) went for $850 (to me!). Since then, I haven't really seen any other decent euphoniums on there.

    I would agree with getting a four valve model as a decent upgrade. Another spot to look is the "for sale" section of Tubenet. I have seen a number of reasonable prices on a variety of horns.

    Ally

  4. #4

    Impressions of Bach 1103

    Thanks for the replies,

    There is still one 1103 on eBay right now - supposedly never been played, starting at $700, BIN price is $1000. The last one went for $585. After giving it some more thought though, I think you are both probably right that I'd be better of with a decent used 4 valve horn. I wouldn't call myself a beginner exactly and I think I'd probably find myself looking for the extra range that the 4th valve would give me. So I guess I'll keep my eyes open for a Yammie 321, King 2280 or maybe a Bach 1110. I also saw a website where they were saying the Holton B490RS is a decent 4 valve, comparable to the 321.
    Looks like there are several good options available and the longer I wait (hopefully) the more money I'll have put away.

    Peter.

  5. Impressions of Bach 1103

    I think that you're making the right choice.

    I just started on the euphonium this past September and I already feel the limitations of a 3 valve horn. While it's not entirely necessary to have a 4th valve for a good bit of repertoire, it makes things easier for range/intonation. There isn't too much difference in price with used 3 and 4 valve non-compensating euphoniums either. A couple weeks ago a Yamaha 321 went for $1000 on ebay and it was in excellent shape all around.

    It certainly doesn't hurt to wait. As you said waiting just means you will have more put away and you'll be better able to jump on a good deal. Ebay can be a great place to bargain shop just be sure to do it smartly. Check the seller's reputation/communicate with them/see if they'll give you a trial period on the horn where you can send it back if you don't like it.

    I almost went for a 321 a few weeks back but decided to wait as you did. I was thinking of getting the 321 and then replacing it in a few years with a 642. However I could just wait a bit and put more expendable income away to go for the 642 straight away.

    There are a plethora of horns out there and wait for the right deal. Regularly very nice horns go for a lot less/more than they're worth. If ebay's your thing save the searches for what you're looking for and you'll get an email in digest form of the new things that are added. This'll do two things for you: you'll see what's going up and not have to search through the entire category each time; and you'll see what different horns are going for.

    Good luck!

    Chad

  6. Impressions of Bach 1103

    Hi Peter,

    I'm a newbie to the forum, too...in fact I joined so that I could share some info on the Bach 1110. As background...I played baritone in high school many, many years ago, and just recently decided that I really wanted to play again. I rented a baritone from a local music store and played that while I searched for a horn of my own. I read a ton from this forum, and checked local and internet stores to get a good idea of prices. There were many good things said about the King 2280, so when I found a used Bach 1110/King 2280 at Tuba Exchange I jumped on it.

    First of all...the Bach 1110 that I have is a pretty new model (938xxx serial number)...though I can't find a serial number list anywhere for Bach Euphs. It has 4 upright valves, large shank, 3 spit valves, and a kicker tuning slide on the 3rd valve. It is very free blowing and sounds great in the lower register. Since I had never played a 4 valve horn (or a real euphonium for that matter) I am still learning the nuances...but I can tell you that I got many compliments and lots of attention after attending the first rehearsal with the new horn. It is definitely a King 2280 clone, and nothing like the Yamaha 321. As for intonation...I am still getting used to the larger Bach 6 1/2 AL mouthpiece (was using a 12C on the rental baritone), and the larger amount of air needed for good sound, so sometimes it sounds stuffy or "squeezed"...but boy does it sound great when I've managed to get everything right! Very rich!

    I've been very pleased with my new euph...can't imagine that it won't be sufficient for my church orchestra/community band needs.

  7. Impressions of Bach 1103

    Welcome BizsMom!
    I just picked up a Conn 191, has the same kicker slide on the third valve. I am real pleased with the horn, which is the clone of the 2280 and (apparently) the 1110.

  8. #8

    Impressions of Bach 1103

    Couple of things to note:

    the Bach 1110: the King 2280 clone is the new version of the Bach 1110; the earlier version, shown on the bach website, was a stencil of the Yamaha YEP321 and lacked the third valve slide trigger.

    Bearphonium, I called Conn-Selmer up when I was considering buying this one: Bach website last Sept., and was told that the third valve trigger was NOT a standard feature of the 19I, but that the trigger was (and still is) available for purchase separately through any Conn dealer for attachment by a repair tech. Apparently, a lot of people did (or are doing) just that, since they still regularly getting inquiries from Conn 19I owners about adding the trigger, even though the horn was discontinued some time ago. (The person I spoke to also advised me to order through a Conn dealer because if I ordered directly, they would charge me list price, and he didn't want to give me a heart attack by telling me what that was.)

  9. Impressions of Bach 1103

    I have been playing a YEP-321 since 1980. The 4 inline valves are great for me. But, if you are considering a 3+1 set up in the near future, I would suggest buying a 3+1 non-comp now. Making the switch will set you back a little.

    Recently I have seen a Wilson, Yamaha (YEP-621), and many imports come across ebay.


  10. #10

    Impressions of Bach 1103

    I agree that it would be better to make the 3+1 switch now. My favorite for an inexpensive 3+1 setup is the Jupiter 570. It's available in lacquer ($1449) or silver ($2039):

    Jupiter 570 3+1 Valve Euphonium in Lacquer

    Jupiter 570 3+1 Valve Euphonium in Silver

    (Note: the links are a little iffy today - if you have trouble after clicking, just go to the search box on and type Jupiter 570)

    For the price difference, and especially if you are figuring on trading up to a compensating horn later, I'd go for the lacquer. It's a very good buy at that price. With either finish, the horn plays very well and holds up well. It is also repairable (which is not always the case with some of the cheap horns on the market) if a mishap comes your way.



    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
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