Hello! My son is a HS junior planning to major in Euph. perf. in college (and yes, I've encouraged him to look at Minn. :-) ) We need to move him to a professional quality instrument, but are trying to stay in the 3k range. I've found a used '76 Besson, 4 valve compensating in satin silver for $3250. The photos are extensive & it looks pristine. Would you all let me know if this is a fair price for an instrument this age? Thank you!
Sponsor Banner
Collapse
satin silver Besson
Collapse
X
-
satin silver Besson
The price seems a bit high, but it the horn is a honey it might be worth getting it. The fact that it looks really clean does not mean it is a honey. There are good Bessons and poor Bessons on the used market, and these usually come because they were good or poor when they were manufactured.
Around the time this one was made I went to NYC with a student to help him pick a new horn. We went to three stores and found a total of six new satin-silver Bessons like the one you are considering. One was outstanding, four were average, and one was poor.
If this horn would have been one of the outstanding ones it would be a good buy. You might need to go try it or have it shipped with a return policy.
I hope to meet him at the U of MN someday!Dave Werden (ASCAP)
Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
Adams Artist (Adams E3)
Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
YouTube: dwerden
Facebook: davewerden
Twitter: davewerden
Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium
-
-
satin silver Besson
Out of curiosity, is the euph a New Standard/Imperial or a Sovereign (introduced 1975, I think)?
Ahh .. found it. It's a New Standard. Does look pristine.
FYI, WWBW has a B-stock Miraphone 1258 for $2660.
Comment
-
-
satin silver Besson
Originally posted by: mclaugh
Out of curiosity, is the euph a New Standard/Imperial or a Sovereign (introduced 1975, I think)?Dave Werden (ASCAP)
Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
Adams Artist (Adams E3)
Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
YouTube: dwerden
Facebook: davewerden
Twitter: davewerden
Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium
Comment
-
-
satin silver Besson
I'm a dad too and my kids aren't cheap (whose are :-). My son plays Euph and doubles on French Horn and Trombone. My daughter plays flute/piccolo and until you've shopped in that realm you have no idea how much easier having kids stick with brass.
I've bought two instruments off of ebay. In both instances I did very well BUT I was very sure of who I was buying from and in both cases I was given the option, no questions asked, to return the instrument as long as I covered the shipping and the instrument weasn't damaged. The first I bought was a Conn 8D French Horn ($1500), the horn was being sold by a noted mid west woodwind shop. I was able to call, speak with the owner about the horn, etc.
The second was a 1967 Besson Comp Euph ($960, shipped) (a pre "New Standard" New Standard as it were). Anyway the horn was being sold by a SE Shires employee who I was also able to reach on the phone. He even changed it to a large shank for me before he shipped it. It's onlky downside (if this can be considered one) is that the horn has been completely stripped, raw brass. It shines wonderfully but it is a maintenance hog.
I think the Satin Horn on ebay looks great, the price is a bit high but I don't think outrageous considering the pics if the horn is original and hasn't been "redone", it looks really sharp for a horn that is 40 years old. I would guess it lived a long and uneventful life in an attic till now. If it was played much there would be tell tale signs of wear that I don't see. The owner has what appears to be an absolute no return policy and to me that might be a deal breaker. That's alot of scratch for a horn that might not perform well, for whatever reason.
The last caveat to me is how much higher than $3250 are you willing to go if the horn needs to hit a good shop because it doesn't sound right. Living in the NYC area I have a huge selection of repair guys who I trust and I know can diagnose a problem and either fix it or send me to someone that can. I can deliver the horn myself which saves shipping so that helps when deciding on a price.
Comment
-
-
satin silver Besson
I noticed that the Besson Satin Silver euphonium is no longer available on ebay. Not sure if the seller sold it as a "Buy it now" or just pulled it--it didn't say. I am concerned however, because I noticed that on Nov. 1st, "Euphkid" and "mclaugh" both wrote on this site about a satin silver besson that also got pulled right before the auction ended. That seller had never sold before, although today's horn seller looks like he has sold plenty of items on ebay before. The reason that all of this interests me is because my son just got scammed out of a considerable amount of money trying to buy a Besson Prestige euphonium that was originally listed on ebay in December. My son emailed the seller about the serial number and other pertinent questions and then, that horn too, was taken off of ebay. Three weeks later, the seller emailed my son and said that his buyer "couldn't come up with the financing" and promised my son that he would ship the horn to us, let my son and his band director look at it, and then only pay if we liked it. The shipping company site promised a five day inspection period prior to paying the seller. We fell for it and gave the shipping company a Western Union money order, and then found out when the horn didn't arrive on Jan. 18th as promised, that the whole shipping company was a sham. Just wondered if this might be the same scam. In retrospect, there were red flags, but at the time, we thought that we were being very careful and had done our homework. Guess we were blinded by trying to get our son the best euphonium that we could find for him to take to college. (He hopes to earn a spot in Penn State's Blue Band!) Anyway, would love any information anyone has on that November ebay seller, if anyone knows it. We have had many good experiences on ebay, just don't ever buy anything taken off of ebay and NEVER PAY BY MONEY ORDER!! There is no recourse, like there is with a credit card or PayPal. Euphonium Player's Mom
Comment
-
-
satin silver Besson
mn2a, sorry about your son's loss.
This particular auction was set to end today. If you look under "Completed items," this auction shows up as completed and not sold. The fact that the seller gave his location and invited anyone in the area who was interested to come by and give it a blow would seem to suggest that this auction was legit. Also, looking through this seller's feedback (224 positive, 1 negativel), it looks like he's sold a number of horns, mouthpieces, and music-related accessories.
I remember the horn listed back in Nov because I was preparing to enter a bid when the listing got pulled. It probably wasn't the same horn. That seller had no feedback and listed his location as FL. (I'll have to look, but I may still have a screen dump of that listing.)
Comment
-
-
satin silver Besson
Thanks for the reply! I also figured that the recent horn's seller was legit; I just found it very curious that the auction completed before the scheduled time/date. I am more interested in the seller of the Nov. satin silver horn, since he had never sold on ebay before, which sounds very similar to the guy who scammed my son. He listed his name as Richard Andrechak and used a shipping company called Irving Freight Company or Irving Shipping. When my son googled his name after the horn didn't arrive, he found a site called RipOff Reports.com where a Canadian buyer had tried to buy something from him and got burned too. I wasn't able to find out what the Canadian buyer tried to buy from him--whether it was a horn or not. My son received high def pictures of the Prestige from him, so we are wondering if he actually ever had the horn or not. What I would love to do is to try to track the serial number of the horn and see if I can find out who bought the horn originally and then track from there. Do you know if it is possible to find out that kind of information from Besson, especially with the recent buyout? It is so easy to hide in cyberspace, but I thought that maybe if I found the horn and where the high def pictures came from, the police could find the guy. Wishful thinking, I am sure! I just hope that telling people on this forum might save others from our disappointment. Euphonium Player's Mom
Comment
-
-
satin silver Besson
The horn might have sold off ebay to the guy that showed up to test the horn. It's possible that the buyer offered cash on the spot and the seller sold the horn and pulled the auction. Just speculation.
I would never consider a high dollar purchase from someone who has no or very little feedback and only wants payment by money order.
Comment
-
-
satin silver Besson
Very similar to my son's horn. The seller looks legit and it looks to be a great deal.
http://cgi.ebay.com/BESSON-4-V...WQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Comment
-
-
satin silver Besson
mn2a,
Euphdad does make a good point about the possibility that someone who went by to check it out offered cash on the spot and the buyer pulled it as a result. But even if that's not the case, I'm not entirely sure that the recent auction was ended before the scheduled time/date. According to the listing, it was scheduled to finish yesterday at 13:41 (PST). I don't know if the listing disappeared from the current auctions page earlier than that since I wasn't tracking it.
For what it's worth, there was a listing for a Sterling euph back in September by a "RichardA" (0 feedback) that gave his location as Laramie, WY, which could (emphasis on "could") be the same guy as your "Richard Andrechak." In that listing, the seller required bidders to contact him prior to bidding. I have a particularly acute memory of that particular auction and the details pertaining to it because I receved what purported to be a "second chance" offer that appeared to come from ebay in my e-mail inbox, but when I logged onto ebay, there was no corresponding offer in my inbox, and no second chance offer appeared in my "Didn't win" list. Short story long, being suspicious by nature, I called up ebay customer service to check on it and forwarded them the e-mail. They were able to confirm while I was still on the phone that the e-mail did not come from ebay, and that the offer was a scam. One important lesson I learned from that experience is to ALWAYS, and I do mean ALWAYS check the "Hide my email address from ____" box on the "Ask the seller a question" page. (I should also mention that I've since seen the same pictures (the background, lighting, and shadows give it away) and terse description of the Sterling on the Chicago, Omaha, and Houston Craigslists.)
It might (emphasis on "might") be possible to trace the horn to the original buyer via the serial number if either the original buyer of the retailer registered the serial number for warranty purposes, but I'm not sure how you would go about finding out that information.
Unfortunately, high def pictures of besson euphs (and just about any other brand, for that matter) can be found all over the net, including on e-bay auctions. There are a number of discussion threads over on Tubenet identifying bogus listings, where "the seller" simply reposted the original listing word for word and with the original pictures, changing only the seller and payment information. In many of these instances, the original seller and the current owner are known and post one Tubenet, and that the current owner can confirm that he/she has no intention of selling the it.
There's currently a listing for a Besson 968 on ebay, though I find it more than a little curious that the sole picture is a copy of the extremely low res pic on WWBW.com. According to the listing, the seller is located in Mount Lebanon, PA. Depending on how far you are from Mount Lebanon, it might be worth checking out in person (I'm assuming you're from or near PA since you mentioned your son wants to play in the Blue Band) AND confirming with the music store linked at the bottom of the page that the seller is the actual owner of the horn. (If the listing is legit, the seller should have no objection to going with you to or meeting you at the store that currently has custody of it.)
Comment
-
-
satin silver Besson
Quick update - yes the satin silver did go to a local buyer; I confirmed this with the seller after receiving notification from ebay that he had declined my offer. Does definitely seem like a legit seller, and I can understand not wanting the hassle of shipping.
We continue to search for a good instrument. Thank you Euphdad, for your comments - always nice to know we parents are not alone! :-)
Would anyone be good enough to offer opinion or pro/con on a new Besson 968 vs a gently used Willson 2900? Thanks
Comment
-
-
satin silver Besson
Don't know of a brass "superstore" that's an easy ride from Raleigh. Has your son ever played any of the higher end euphs ? I was quite suprised by the difference in tone and overall sound from them when played sided by side. Ultimately the decision should be his but there is also somewhat of a comfort level. Mt son did not like the Yamaha 842 at all but loved the 642, the 968 and the Willsons he's tried.
Does he have a private teacher?
Too, look into the school he wants to attend. While this is more a french horn thing it seems some ensembles have a problem with mixed instruments. While others will probably comment on this, I have heard of university music departments hinting that a particular brand horn might be better for the whole than ....
Comment
-
Comment