Compensating euphs--3+1 vs. 4v (Marzan design)

[daruby]

son really wanted a 2975Compensating euphs--3+1 vs. 4v (Marzan design)

Knuxie,

If you are interested in a much less expensive inline front 4-valve bell-front comp-ensating horn, there is a very rare Besson for sale on ebay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...e=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=012

Doug

[dkstone]

son really wanted a 2975Compensating euphs--3+1 vs. 4v (Marzan design)

That is certainly an unusual looking beast. The case is identical to the ones used by Reynolds and Olds in the 1960s. Has anyone on the forum had any experience with this particular model?

Thanks for posting the link. I always enjoy looking at a little euphonium history.

[ABQtuba]

Compensating euphs--3+1 vs. 4v (Marzan design)

As one who plays tuba more than euph, I prefer the front-4 Willson 2975 design. Never thought I'd own one, though--way out of my price range. I've had a Yamaha 321 and a Miraphone 1258, as well as a couple of tubas in the Perinet configuration, and I simply prefer to wrap my arms around a horn rather than have my right arm bent uncomfortably. Also, I prefer not to have to empty 4 or more moisture collectors (tuning slides) all the time. So I've done my recent euph playing on a 4-rotary-valve Lidl (made in Brno, Czech Republic, probably before 1956, judging by the clock-spring valves and the high-quality brass), which has excellent drainage and good comfort but is small bore and somewhat stuffy.

Recently I was able to acquire a Marzan euph. I've seen more Marzan tubas than euphs, and I understand the euphs were made by Willson and became the prototype of the 2975. Mine says "Swiss made" on the leadpipe. It differs from the 2975, near as I can tell, by having its main tuning slide pointing upward so it can be operated with the left hand while playing. (You can find a link to Dr. Marzan's patent on Dan Schultz's website, or go to through Google)

I'd welcome any additional information about Marzan euphs now that I have one.

[suetuba]

Compensating euphs--3+1 vs. 4v (Marzan design)

I learned on 3+1 instruments, played all through college on a smashing Eb Sovereign 3+1, then as finance permitted shifted to a 5v set up for both C and F. I do prefer the posture that one obtains with centre valves, but apart from that I don' think it makes much difference! I chose the horns more for their sound, although I do like rotaries, very nice for fast work ( and hideous for slurs).
The euphonium that I play has 3+1, and it doesn't faze me shifting from one set-up to another. Shifting from rotaries to pistons takes more thinking.
You can get used to any set up!

However, avoiding clashing bells is important for reasons of physics as well as damage. One should play away from the other bell, not into it, to avoid interference patterns, which can seriously diminish amplitude as perceived in the audience, not to mention create interesting back-pressure effects.
Sue

[kevin67]

Compensating euphs--3+1 vs. 4v (Marzan design)

I occasionaly play the above mentioned 1890's Besson in a 3 + 2 configuration. I find it only takes a good practice session to get used to the side valves. The added fingerings are no big deal either. But, I can fly on my YEP321. My left had just doesn't have the speed my right hand has.

My right hand has played the YEP321 since 1980. My left has held onto the stearing wheel, held my fishing pole, helps move big objects, and may even help catch a ball now and then. It will take a lot of practice to get thoes fingers working the same as my right.

[ABQtuba]

Compensating euphs--3+1 vs. 4v (Marzan design)

I'd like to weigh in on the side of the 4v compensating configuration. I've played on a number of euphs in various configurations (Mirafone 1258 4+1 comp; Yamaha 321 and Lidl 4v rotary non-comps as well as 3v top and front-valve models). I'd always thought I'd prefer a 4-v compensating left-pointer, but the only one that I know of is the Willson 2975, which is way out of the price range for a semipro player like myself. Recently I found a Marzan at a price approaching affordability (see Marzan vs Willson 2975 thread). I'm not disappointed.

I like the 4 front valve configuration partly because I play tuba most of the time and and have a strong little finger for the 4th valve. I've also found the Perinet (upright) configuration uncomfortable for extended playing on both tubas and euphs. Also, the front-valve setup, as on rotary-valve tubas and my Lidl euph, generally has better drainage. One doesn't need to keep pulling slides to empty them or to install water keys.

A number of contributors to this thread have noted that bell orientation can be a problem in a euphonium section. I'm not sure how serious that is, having played in tuba sections where bells pointed both ways. There are many fine 3+1 comps being made, and manufacturers may not wish to retool to make the Marzanish configuration. Or maybe the Marzan patents are owned by somebody who doesn't want to license them to instrument makers other than Willson. Anyone have any info on who currently holds the Marzan patents?

[fsung]

Compensating euphs--3+1 vs. 4v (Marzan design)

Originally posted by: ABQtuba
A number of contributors to this thread have noted that bell orientation can be a problem in a euphonium section. I'm not sure how serious that is, having played in tuba sections where bells pointed both ways.

Take your euph to a mass tuba-euph event like Tuba Christmas and sit beside a younger or beginning player whose bell is oriented in the opposite direction of yours.

IMO, comparing the orientation of tuba and euph bells is an apples-to-oranges comparison.

Owing to the size and weight of tubas, tubists by and large are much more aware of the positioning of their instruments relative to other instruments, tend to raise and lower them less frequently than euphonim players, and to do so more slowly when they do. It's a heck of a lot easier to snap a euph up or down without losing control of it than it is a tuba. Also, the tubists I've played with over the years rarely lower their horns to resting position in the middle of a piece when they're not playing; they simply move it away from their face, whereas euphonium players tend to lower their horns every chance they get.

I've also observed that the first thing tubists tend to do once they're seated - even before they raise their horn to playing position - is to adjust the position of their chair to ensure they have adequate space to manouvre their horns as required. (I've rarely seen other instrumentalists do this: typically, what I see other instrumentalists do is raise their horn to playing position and then adjust their chair based on their position relative to their music stand.) So it seems that somewhere along the line, tubists learn to be aware of the space around their instruments in a way that other instrumentalists don't. So possibly one of the reasons bell orientation isn't as large an issue with tubas as it is with euphoniums is that tubists have been conditioned to notice possible hazards and adjust their positioning accordingly.

[RickF]

Compensating euphs--3+1 vs. 4v (Marzan design)

Yes, bell direction can be troublesome.

I play in 2 bands... the one where all 4 of us have bells that orient to the right - there is no problem. In the other band, the lady sitting to my right plays a bent-bell king (with front action). We were always having to be extra careful in putting down our horns. Then I learned to put my horn down on my lap with the bell facing to my left. No more problem it that band. Since I sit on the outside, it even works in the other band.

[ABQtuba]

Compensating euphs--3+1 vs. 4v (Marzan design)

fsung has pointed out something that I hadn't ever really noticed--tuba players do stake out their areas. In the concert band I've played in, we tubas create enough side-to-side room for ourselves and get a bit testy if the trumpet row in front of us moves back too far. The euph players, on the other hand, are sandwiched between the trumpets and trombones, and a left-pointer could be a problem there. And both fsung and Sue have pointed out, there may be sonic interference with opposite bell orientations. I am perhaps fortunate in that I do all my euph playing in a polka band, where I am the euphonium section--and the trombone section as well. Thanks for pointing out some things I hadn't thought about.

[kevin67]

Compensating euphs--3+1 vs. 4v (Marzan design)

My thought is that if you are playing in a band with Left Bells (ie Conn 14I type) then you should be playing that type of horn. If you need 4 valves, get a 4 valved Constelation or a 4-valve Renolds to use for that band. This way your tone will blend with the rest of the section and the bell of your comp. horn will be saved.

Or, sit in 2 euph sectons. On the left you will have the left facers, on the right you will have the right facers.