expanding my range

[ghmerrill]

I've found, though, that I have to shift the position of my lips in order to be able to blow down on the "weathered" part of my lips, which makes it difficult to play in the low register! In fact, I can't play anything below the second line Bb (bass clef) without physically repositioning my mouthpiece. Maybe I need to find an instructor to help me with my embrochure.

I think there is some ambiguity or imprecision when people talk about "repositioning" or "shifting" or "moving" the mouthpiece. Certainly I am no expert. But I have never found that I could play my entire range -- or play it with reasonable intonation and quality -- without some sort of "shift" or "movement." In fact, in my program of getting up to speed again in the past few weeks, I've discovered that I have fundamentally three mouthpiece "positions" on my tuba. The "middle" one is what you'd expect -- er ... pretty much in the middle. The lower one is what I use from F at the bottom of the (bass clef) staff downwards for the ~ two octaves I access in that direction. And the upper one is is for F at the top of the staff and upwards (currently to only about a strained Bb, but how high do you have to go on a tuba in band music?).

Does this mean I'm shifting the mouthpiece all over my face? Seemingly not. But there is some sort of shift -- as well as a "dropping of the jaw" in the lower register and what Roger Lewis describes for the high register. I won't presume to go further in terms of details, and say only that this is what works for me in a seemingly reliable and uniform way. I do pretty much the same with trombone. I also believe that this is consistent with how Doug Elliott approaches things, though again, I'm no expert.

You might be interested in looking at some of Doug Elliott's stuff -- often over on TromboneChat, or TrumpetHerald, although he's also posted both here and on TubNet on occasion. In addition, he gives lessons -- and "virtual" ones as well. I confess that I've never had a lesson with him, and in fact have never had a lesson in tuba, low brass, or any other brass instrument (I don't count saxophone even though it's -- usually -- brass ). But if I did decide to get some lessons in embouchure, it would certainly be with Doug. And I've done my best to follow the guidance he's provided on various forums in a variety of threads -- including his approach to what he sometimes refers to as his "simplification" of Reinhardt's "pivot system." I can't claim to be particularly good at it, but the insights have improved my playing on tuba, euphonium, and trombone.

In this context, I guess I want to take back the force of my previous comment about benefiting more from Roger Lewis's remarks than from anything else. I have also benefited hugely from Doug Elliott's remarks and approach, and see Lewis's remarks as consistent with that.

[Magikarp]

Oh, if you buzz, do it as softly as possible. Never, ever buzz loud and hard.

I have always found the concept of buzzing curious, and the schism between those that do and those that don't bewildering. What is even more curious is former proponents - Allen Vizzutti being a good example - abandoning their previous love of it.

I find buzzing to be a highly exaggerated version of what happens in the mouthpiece when I actually play, so exaggerated in fact it doesn't seem that related.

I remember tuba soloist Steve Sykes demonstrating how buzzing helped his extreme upper register, but he stopped short of demonstrating how it might benefit normal register playing.

Personally, to get a buzz out of my my chops with just a mouthpiece I have to work so hard it probably isn't doing any good.

[John Morgan]

I have always found the concept of buzzing curious, and the schism between those that do and those that don't bewildering. What is even more curious is former proponents - Allen Vizzutti being a good example - abandoning their previous love of it.

I find buzzing to be a highly exaggerated version of what happens in the mouthpiece when I actually play, so exaggerated in fact it doesn't seem that related.

I remember tuba soloist Steve Sykes demonstrating how buzzing helped his extreme upper register, but he stopped short of demonstrating how it might benefit normal register playing.

Personally, to get a buzz out of my my chops with just a mouthpiece I have to work so hard it probably isn't doing any good.

And I thought I was in the very small minority, maybe I am, but I am with you, Magikarp...

I don't buzz, and when I try, I can't do it very well. I played in a community band in Las Vegas at the college, and the conductor (trumpet player) insisted on everyone buzzing for the first part of rehearsal. Boy, did I not like that. I faked it, then enjoyed playing normally.

I am also with you, Magikarp, that it is way harder to buzz than it is to just stick the horn (mouthpiece) on your chops and have at it. And if I do manage to get a buzz and then put the mouthpiece up to my buzzing lips, it sounds like, well, not good. I never heard of buzzing at all when I started playing, and it wasn't until many years later that I did hear about it. I do not do it, period. I don't think it has hurt me to not do it. For those that do buzz, congratulations. But I am not sure at all how it benefits anyone.

[iMav]

So, you two are saying you don’t like and/or can’t buzz your lips unless you have the back pressure of the horn?

I often buzz into my mouthpiece while covering part of the end with my pinky finger.

[DaveBj]

I often buzz into my mouthpiece while covering part of the end with my pinky finger.

There's a technical term for that -- the Pinky Resistance Device, or PRD

[John Morgan]

So, you two are saying you don’t like and/or can’t buzz your lips unless you have the back pressure of the horn?

I often buzz into my mouthpiece while covering part of the end with my pinky finger.

I can buzz if I try hard enough, but once I try hard enough, it is not something that I want to do or continue. And I can't imagine that my buzzing is the same thing that is happening when I actually do play the horn. For the record, I have attempted buzzing with just the lips and with a mouthpiece. Both I found rather useless for ME and something I would never want to do on any regular basis.

[ghmerrill]

I have to agree with John on this. For a while after I started playing tuba, I spent some time on buzzing -- often to or from work in the car, or for short periods at home. I think that it probably contributes in a kind of general way to muscle tone in the lips and jaw, but I never felt that it was otherwise beneficial. I did feel that I must have been missing something because at that time buzzing was highly recommended by quite a variety of performers and instructors as an important (if not critical) approach to embouchure development.

It always seemed to me that any time spent on buzzing was better spent on exercises with the instrument as a whole, and so that's the direction I went in. It's also difficult to be sure that any apparent benefits to buzzing are real as opposed to illusory -- since people who are willing to devote time to buzzing, for the most part, are also devoting time to more typical practice with the instrument. It's hard to see how buzzing would be BETTER than playing the instrument -- at least as an ongoing activity. It may have some benefits as a substitute if you can't otherwise practice with the instrument. And it may have some (episodic?) "diagnostic" benefits, but, as a programmatic approach to your practice, it's hard to see (or to determine) that it has a kind of "stand alone" benefit that wouldn't be better served by practicing with the mouthpiece in the instrument. At least that's how it seemed to me over time.

But it also may be that it just works better/differently for some people than for others.