shilke & bach mps.

[euphking]

hi..im a senior in high school and i play on a shilke 51d...but my teacher plays a bach...and he insists that i should play on the bach as well..is there a diffrence in tone between the two mouthpieces?and is there a mps that has the qualitys of both of these mps.

[GregEuphonium]

shilke & bach mps.

Well... this is going to depend on what size mpc the Bach is. One of the most common Bach mpc's is the 5G.... In comparing the 5G with a Schilke 51D; the Schilke is just a bit bigger in rim size, but I have found the cup to be deeper, and the backbore to be much more open. I used to play on a 5G before I switched to the Schilke 51D, and I will never go back to Bach... the quality of the tone is awesome, and the larger backbore allows for much larger and more efficient air flow. But this is all just my opinion.

[daruby]

shilke & bach mps.

What kind of horn are you playing? What size Bach mpc is your instructor suggesting? Why does he/she want you to change? Are you able to get a "big" round sound on the 51D? Is your instructor a trombone, tuba or trumpet player who doubles on Euphonium? It is not my inetnt to get you in trouble with your instructor, but you have obviously quesioned this recommendation.... We are trying to second guess the motivation/recommendation of your instructor without enough information.

The Schilke 51D is one of the "standards" of Euphonium performance and one can get a very nice sound. BTW, the DEG BB1 (Brian Bowman 1) is to the Schilke 51D what the Steven Mead 4 is to the Denis Wick 4AL, similar size, shape and depth but more metal mass in the cup to darken the sound and support larger volume levels. Bach does a similar thing with their "megatone" mouthpices in comparison with their standard mouthpieces.

One of the reasons for change may be that you do not have enough "support" yet for the 51D and your instructor wants you to play a smaller mouthpiece (6 1/2AL or 5G are typical Bach sizes). If the instructor wants you to move towards the 3G or 1 1/2G sizes, these are really Bass Trombone mouthpieces and not good equipmnt for Euphonium (IMO). Size such as Bach 7C or smaller (higher numbers) are tenor trombone sizes and really too small fo a nice warm Euphonium sound (again IMO).

EDITORIAL: FLAME ON Change for changes sake is never a good idea in my opinion. Personally, I believe too many college level teachers insist on equipment changes either because they are "sponsored" by a particular manufacturer (Yamaha and Willson in the US come to mind) or becuase they believe that the particular equipment they use "is the only way to do it". My older brother was a world class french horn player out of high school in the early 1960's and had to undergo the agony of changing to a Holton french horn just because his university studio instructor got a commission on every horn he sold. FLAME OFF

Doug

[bearphonium]

shilke & bach mps.

I have been playing euph for about 6 months (after a 20 year layoff), and not full time at that, as I am playing the tuba in two bands. That said, I have been using a Bach 6.5AL on the euph and a Bach 18 on the tuba. My (dated) experience was that Bach made the "best" mouthpiece. I have been waiting to attain a level of competence on both horns before delving into a replacement mouthpiece. The tuba that I bought (3/4 York Master BBb) came with a Yamaha Canadian Brass mouthpiece, and I found that it was easier to center the tone with that than the 18.

I second what Doug said: Change for the sake of change makes no sense. Change to improve tone/build better playing/improve comfort/improve intonation does.

[Euphyoungvituoso89]

shilke & bach mps.

Michael Mulcahy who plays trombone in the Chicago symphony doubles on the Euphonium(Which has a lot to do with what Doug said above about doubling) plays on a Bach 3G,Which in my personal opinion is the best Bach mouthpiece for Euphonium(when talking about a dark sound). But the Schlike has to be one of the "Top Dog" mouthpieces in the industry. Maybe ask your instructor for a blind test. Ask he or she to turn around and play a scale on each mouthpiece and see which sound he or she approves and which feels more comfortable to you and one keeping that Euphonium natural dark, full vibrant sound.

[davewerden]

shilke & bach mps.

The posts above make great sense. There may be a reason for the requested change. But if it's just to choose the Bach brand over the Schilke brand, then it doesn't make sense to me.

My choice is the Wick mouthpiece (4AL), and Steven Mead has his own line based closely on the Wick designs. Many fine players use Denis Wick mouthpieces. But if I were looking to change for some reason or suggesting mouthpieces for someone to try, Bach would be one of the choices I think is smart. They are fine mouthpieces.

In the world of serious euphonium players, there are probable fewer Bach mp's than Schilke. That doesn't make Schikle right and Bach wrong, but it says you are not way off base. However, the Schilke is for an advanced player in my opinion. A smaller mp might be better for someone whose chops are still "growing." Perhaps (as suggested above) that is part of the motivation???

euphking: Next time you log in, fill us in with some more details.

[euphking]

shilke & bach mps.

i play on a yamaha 321s and my instructor is a euphonium player who plays on a 5gs....he prefers the sound of bach and dislikes the tone of the shilke mps...i get a fuller sound with the shilke than with a bach

[Euphist]

shilke & bach mps.

i would say there you have it, use what you sound better on

[keithbarton]

shilke & bach mps.

Because you are still in high school and your teacher wants you to do this, you might get all your ducks in a row and tactfully explain to him why you want to play the Schilke over the Bach, and why you don't want to experiment and switch back and forth between mouthpieces. My personal preference is to stick with one mouthpiece and make it work for me and my horn. I see no reason to play around and experiment. If you've found what you like, then stick with it. When I first started back playing 6 years ago, I went to a Schilke 51D and thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Then Arthur gave me his big Lehman mouthpiece that he played many years in the Marine Band and until 2002. Once I got used to it, I decided I wouldn't go back to the Schilke, and in fact tried it a few months ago and found it lacking and restricting for me.

Good luck and don't quit playing like I did when I got out of high school.

[kevin67]

shilke & bach mps.

I will agree with Keith. But I must also say that your instructor may have a good reason for the switch. I also feel that you instructor should have already read this post and have the reasons listed for you on your next sesion.

Things to think about:
How much thought has your instructor given this switch?
How much thought have you given this?
Have you recorded yourself on both? or
Did you only play for a short time (less than 45 minutes)?

What I would do (and did 25 years ago) is buy the mouthpiece and use it for a month- see what happens?

I mean, come on. Amouthpiece is cheaper than a calculator. How many of thoes do you have sitting around?

[mbrooke]

shilke & bach mps.

Have you considered the possibility that your teacher may be correct and that you do sound better on the 5G? I have found that it is very difficult to hear what you sound like when you play. It's much better to have a third party, like you teacher give you feedback. Also, just because the 51D gives you a fuller sound, does not necessarily mean its a better sound. IMO, a lot of euph players get caught up in the idea of having a huge, fat sound and use the largest mouthpiece that they can to achieve this goal. The problem is that this big sound doesn't have any core or sweetness. It's just big. I personally found that coming down a little in mouthpiece size improved my playing.


Mike